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AndyEss · 27-09-2021, 21:59

My primary nav-aid is my RM mfd with Navionics and Cmap chart data (both came with the mfd)
IPad with INavX running Blue Latitude chart data for the Sea of Cortez. I like the INavX anchor alarm function.
I downloaded Open CPN onto a backup hardbook laptop, but haven’t used it. I should update the version and check my chart data sets. The satellite overlay discussion herein is fascinating and I’d like to learn more, especially if the Marquesas/French Polynesia ever open up post Covid.
Second IPad with INavX for backup.
I have a sextant and took a class on how to use it, but I need a refresher.
I need to get some paper backup charts for my destinations in the South Pacific, Hawaiian Islands, and Alta California (all to rather coarse scale, as space is limited).

Duxa · 27-09-2021, 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

Mexico's SEMAR produces new charts and revisions. The geospatial link provided above shows there are many SEMAR charts with recent dates.

Hopefully there will be a better priced version for OpenCPN over the next 12 months.

ALSO: The Blue Latitude anchorage/harbour charts (and guidebooks) are excellent for the Sea of Cortes (Baja) and Pacific Mexico (mainland). OpenCharts has these charts available at a reasonable price for OpenCPN.

As for Captain Cook, well new charts have places like Cabo San Lucas, Puerto San José, and the Sabalo marinas in Mazatlan. None of these harbours existed during Cook's time (nor the 1800s nor first half of 20th century), so you can be sure, they're new charts. (I don't believe Cook sailed to the Sea of Cortes.... [emoji6])

haha,

Yeah, I have no idea how charts are actually produced. But I imagine when Cabo came about they would simply add it to existing charts and reprint them, leaving everything else as it was. So some of those depth measurements may as well be hundreds of years old.

Also, I dont know if anyone knows. But for US waters, do all these charting companies (Navionics, Aqua Maps, C-MAP etc etc...) do they just use NOAA data? Or do they have their own little trawlers out there making measurements/charting unique to their platform?

because if they just use NOAA data as the baseline, then it seems like the only thing you would be paying for is their user interface on the apps. (and for actual boat chartplotters as part of subsidizing the hardware).

Now I've seen Mexico + Caribbean charts for $400. I also see Navionics offer them for $25 and Sea Maps for about the same. Again, are all these still using the same data? Why wouldnt I just pay Navionics $25 and use that?

The one thing that I am kind of starting to conclude is that expensive stuff is not always good. Lets take the CM93v2, everyone seems to agree they are terrible for charting. Well teleport back to 2011 when they were brand new. The lack of detail that was pointed out was still there. So that means they were still terrible to use even when brand new. And how much were they? Not cheap right?

So how does one know that the chart they pick up today isnt the same story 10 years later? It seems like a gamble. Which means you have to take any chart with a grain of salt no matter how new. So get the cheapest one, and use that as general guidance but then still come towards land via eyes on.

ranger58sb · 28-09-2021, 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duxa

Id love a lecture on the subject. Because (again as a newcomer) I compared all of the charts I listed in the poll, most of them had the exact same information. The only one that stood out was Navionics, but not because of charts, but because of Active Captain, it had things (markers/bouys out in the water) marked that no other source had (markers I sailed around as part of my ASA class, so I know they are there).

I have seen missing nav aids on C-Map, Garmin, and NOAA charts. (Not seen on the chart, actually, after seeing the nav aid on the waterway.) I'd suspect Navionics misses some here and there, too.

I'd guess ActiveCaptain shouldn't have anything to do that with original inclusion (or not) of nav aid markers. More likely I'd think an AC marker would be somebody pointing out a nav aid that's missing on their chart (whatever brand) or a nav aid that's actually missing or off station on the waterway.

-Chris

sv_pelagia · 28-09-2021, 09:02

If one is cruising in the USA, I do not understand why one does not use the excellent and FREE NOAA charts. There are several programs that handle them (including OpenCPN).

Navionics, CMAP etc essentially use government hydrographic sources, such as NOAA (USA), CHS (Canada), SEMAR (Mexico). HOWEVER, you have no way of knowing when and/or if they have applied updates available from the above hydrographic offices.

I have noted numerous instances where Navionics and CMAP are months (years) behind here in Canada and months/years behind in the Sea of Cortes - - eg, CMAP still hasn't included the new (in 2018) SEMAR detailed chart of the islands in Bahia de la Paz, a very very popular cruising locaton.

https://sailing-pelagia.blogspot.com...onics.html?m=0

https://sailing-pelagia.blogspot.com...s-are.html?m=0

DMF Sailing · 28-09-2021, 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

If one is cruising in the USA, I do not understand why one does not use the excellent and FREE NOAA charts. There are several programs that handle them (including OpenCPN).

Use 'em now, while they last.

That's why I (and Don C.L., presumably) like iSailGPS, by the way. Unlimited free NOAA charts for when I want to check and can't go below.

sv_pelagia · 28-09-2021, 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMF Sailing

Use 'em now, while they last.

That's why I (and Don C.L., presumably) like iSailGPS, by the way. Unlimited free NOAA charts for when I want to check and can't go below.

RASTER yes, but NOAA vector (also free) will continue. (CHS has announced the same.)

DMF Sailing · 28-09-2021, 09:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

RASTER yes, but NOAA vector (also free) will continue. (CHS has announced the same.)

True.

Have I mentioned that I hate change? The extinguishing of Boston Light broke my heart.

Matters less to an experienced ocean sailor like you, I'll expect. You have to adapt exponentially more.

Tonali99 · 28-09-2021, 10:16

Garmin GPS / sextant backup / paper charts
phone app with GPS and sat maps
There and the grace of God.

Duxa · 28-09-2021, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by sv_pelagia

If one is cruising in the USA, I do not understand why one does not use the excellent and FREE NOAA charts. There are several programs that handle them (including OpenCPN).

Navionics, CMAP etc essentially use government hydrographic sources, such as NOAA (USA), CHS (Canada), SEMAR (Mexico). HOWEVER, you have no way of knowing when and/or if they have applied updates available from the above hydrographic offices.

I have noted numerous instances where Navionics and CMAP are months (years) behind here in Canada and months/years behind in the Sea of Cortes - - eg, CMAP still hasn't included the new (in 2018) SEMAR detailed chart of the islands in Bahia de la Paz, a very very popular cruising locaton.

https://sailing-pelagia.blogspot.com...onics.html?m=0

https://sailing-pelagia.blogspot.com...s-are.html?m=0

So it seems that the best course is to use the charts straight from the horse's mouth. For NOAA we can download and use their charts directly. Is this the case with CHS and SEMAR? Or do we have to rely on 3rd party for those (Navionics, CMAP etc) ?

sv_pelagia · 28-09-2021, 12:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duxa

So it seems that the best course is to use the charts straight from the horse's mouth. For NOAA we can download and use their charts directly. Is this the case with CHS and SEMAR? Or do we have to rely on 3rd party for those (Navionics, CMAP etc) ?

Canada (CHS) charges significantly for their charts. However, Open-Charts offer essentially official CHS vector charts (and updatable monthly, the same frequency as CHS charts) for a very reasonable fee (e.g., 20€ for Canada's Pacific Coast).

(I will not cruise here in British Columbia - - and cetainly do not recommend doing so - - without the official updated CHS CHARTS. Hence, I pay the $ for CHS raster charts AND also for the o-charts.)

Mexico is more problematic. SEMAR advertises its charts and prices (and they are pricy; much higher than Canada!) but doesn't offer a package for all charts. I'm hoping o-charts will eventually reach some form of agreement with SEMAR (optimistic [emoji1696]). And, as mentioned, there are the excellent Blue Latitude harbour/anchorage charts, available for reasonable fee from several vendors (including o-charts).

Many resort to Navionics/Garmin/CMAP for Mexico, due to their easy acquisition and lower cost. BUT there is always the question of how uptodate they are.

NormanMartin · 28-09-2021, 14:40

Paper chart backed up with a hand held Garmin

Lepke · 28-09-2021, 15:05

I use OpenCPN on a desktop and a laptop with a different program as backup. I also have Time Zero and Coastal Explorer (I wish I would have spent the money on scotch). I would use TZ if it accepted NOAA charts and I hate Coastal Explorer. I use some specialty software for bearings and celestial. I wish there was a program that had everything I want in it. Old navy trained navigator trying to make navigation as easy as it was.

ranger58sb · 29-09-2021, 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lepke

I would use TZ if it accepted NOAA charts ....

???

Our TZ uses NOAA charts (both raster and vector) easily enough; that's what it came with, and I've always done annual updates, no significant difficulties.

???

I've not bought the optional C-Map or Navionics charts for TZ, but they're available too...

-Chris