"Best" chart/navigation software

[JPK]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

That's down to the computer you are using, not the software.

It's both. Someone thought it relevant enough to create a document here:

https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/do...rted:gps_setup

... but it hasn't been updated in years and is now more misleading than helpful (at least for MacOS).

Edited to add: Strictly speaking, you are correct. However I'm going to venture a guess that most people have not had an occasion to add a GPS receiver to their PC or Macbook prior to using a chartplotter app so getting a GPS receiver set up on their computer is very much a part of getting up and running on OpenCPN.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

That's down to the computer you are using, not the software.

The way the question was worded I agree it's more of a hardware issue. But I have to say that adding a GPS or any type of input device requires a lot more steps and technical proficiency than commercial software. OCPN requires defining ports and some troubleshooting. It will not receive all N2K data off my gateway, for example. CE/TZ are much more plug and play.

Another example of OCPN having a feature that is not accessible to many users. It really could be great software if the developer community spent some time with competing products and normal users.

Early in the thread, I suggested filming a new user and watch what happens when they open OCPN for the first time, how they navigate, etc. it was one of three concrete suggestions in this thread (wizards and documentation were the other two). All three were scoffed at for various reasons.

Really could be great software. Developers have done an amazing job to get it this far and hats off to them. But if there's ever a desire to move it past a niche product, will need a different set of priorities that focus on UI vs technical features. Given the defensiveness of Nohal, guessing either there is zero desire to do that, or the current team is not the right team to bring it to that next level.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by JPK

It's both. Someone thought it relevant enough to create a document here:

https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/do...rted:gps_setup

... but it hasn't been updated in years and is now more misleading than helpful (at least for MacOS).

Don't know Mac but for windows if the nmea sentences are getting in it will work on software which uses nmea sentences. It's hardware.

Try asking on a mac forum.

https://opencpn.org/wiki/dokuwiki/do...nmea_sentences

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

But if there's ever a desire to move it past a niche product, .

You keep saying that. It just comes across as a passive/aggressive insult.
If you don't mean it like that doesn't make any difference, that's how it comes across. And you keep on saying it, not really surprising you get negative responses. And your wrong, it's very popular & in use in many thousands of boats around the world.

Make the effort to be nice, people will be nice back

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

You keep saying that. It just comes across as a passive/aggressive insult. If you don't mean it like that doesn't make any difference, that's how it comes across. And you keep on saying it, not really surprising you get negative responses. And your wrong, it's very popular & in use in many thousands of boats around the world.

Make the effort to be nice, people will be nice back

Re-read my posts - they were blunt but nice and intended as constructive criticism which was requested a few pages back. It's possible my posts were not mean, but rather you guys are thin-skined and defensive.

Y'all had at least three constructive observations that might improve the product (wizards, better documentation, watch a new user to understand his/her experience). All were presented as heartfelt improvements to a decent product. Clearly, even though feedback was requested you weren't expecting it. Nope - you wanted adulation from adoring fans. CF is not a great echo chamber, especially when you ask for feedback.

So here you go: OCPN is perfect. Don't change a thing. Anyone who disagrees is a neanderthal and doesn't deserve the wonderful attributes of OCPN. If OCPN were $1000, it would still be a bargain compared to the COTS stuff because its so easy to use and does so much. Everyone who uses it does so because it's wonderful software and would gladly pay 2x the price of CE/TZ. The OP is wrong when he insinuates otherwise, as is anyone who find it difficult to use.

Y'all have done a great job. Are you happy now?

[nohal]

All your constructive observations are well noted, partly already being implemented. Your constant insults that follow them don't deserve any comments.

[hpeer]

Originally Posted by bdbcat

@hpeer....


What is your user name at the OpenCPN for Android Forum?
We will enable your account manually, you need only ask.


Thanks
Dave


p.s. sorry for the drift.

Dave,

Sorry for the very late reply, no good excuse.

I apparently have tried twice.

Public@hpeer.com

And

Hpeer01. (Note this is against a gmail account)

At least thatvis what is in my records.

[hpeer]

Guys, come on, please read your responses to Mrweebles from a Customer Service point of view. Suppose you had a complaint Garmin or Ray Marine or Furuno and got a response such as you just provided. Would you have been happy with that response?

I totally get that you guys are very familiar with and proud of your accomplishment. And with good reason. But we from the outside struggle, mightily.

This is not a good business plan.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Re-read my posts - they were blunt but nice and intended as constructive criticism which was requested a few pages back. It's possible my posts were not mean, but rather you guys are thin-skined and defensive.

Y'all had at least three constructive observations that might improve the product (wizards, better documentation, watch a new user to understand his/her experience). All were presented as heartfelt improvements to a decent product. Clearly, even though feedback was requested you weren't expecting it. Nope - you wanted adulation from adoring fans. CF is not a great echo chamber, especially when you ask for feedback.

So here you go: OCPN is perfect. Don't change a thing. Anyone who disagrees is a neanderthal and doesn't deserve the wonderful attributes of OCPN. If OCPN were $1000, it would still be a bargain compared to the COTS stuff because its so easy to use and does so much. Everyone who uses it does so because it's wonderful software and would gladly pay 2x the price of CE/TZ. The OP is wrong when he insinuates otherwise, as is anyone who find it difficult to use.

Y'all have done a great job. Are you happy now?

Chill. Be nice. That was the message. On web forums with no visual clues you need to be careful with the words used. The language you were using would wind anyone up.
It comes across as intentionally provocative, if you agree or not is irrelevant, that's how it comes across.
Be careful with the words, be nice. Then none of this would have happened.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by barcoMeCasa

Chill. Be nice. That was the message. On web forums with no visual clues you need to be careful with the words used. The language you were using would wind anyone up.
It comes across as intentionally provocative, if you agree or not is irrelevant, that's how it comes across.
Be careful with the words, be nice. Then none of this would have happened.

I'll push back here. Nohal asked for feedback. I gave it. He said he wanted more of an example. I gave it as best I could. It then became abundantly clear that he didn't give a damn about issues except to dismiss them as a user problem. Also comments about how it must be magic that CE/TZ can miraculously read charts that aren't there. True, but totally ignored someone else's point that it's almost impossible to have these problems with those programs.

You want people to be nice? Open your ears and listen to people instead of being so condescending and dismissing them as dolts. Seriously, you'd be stunned if you watched a newbie use OCPN vs one of the COTS packages out there. But you'd have to be willing to watch and correct, not jump up and say "You're doing it wrong. Here are the 78 command lines you need to use....."

You want nice? Listen to your users.

BTW - I'm a user of OCPN. It has some excellent features that are unique and important. Someday, you might want to ask folks what it would take to make it their primary nav software instead of exceptions.

[hpeer]

Yes, a pause to refresh would do all well here.

OpenCPN is a wonderful asset from some gifted men.

The trick is in translating it so that we others can share it.

While it sounds trite it is good advice that everyone, self included, should try to listen sympathetically. There are no jerks here, just folks trying to be heard.

[ranger58sb]

FWIW, I've not tried OpenCPN because I see (in passing) all the issues and queries for the "help desk" here. I didn't want a science project... have too many other things on the boats to learn and fix/maintain.

So when it came time, I upgraded to a Furuno MFD (NavNET 3D, at the time) and installed TimeZero on home and ship's computers. That would have been in 2009. And more recently, we replaced a dead plotter that came on this boat with a newer Furuno TZT3.

I've had one -- and only one -- "help desk" issue, and that was caused by a computer that actually died in circa 2015 (?)... so I couldn't properly uninstall TZ to get the code necessary for transferring that license to a replacement computer.

The learning curve for both have been relatively easy. Turn on. Use. Occasionally RTFM.

I expect the Furuno and TimeZero help desks do actually field boatloads of questions, especially given the size of their user base, but I don't see much of that.

Our nav requirements are relatively lightweight. I don't remember ever thinking "I wish I could also do..." though. I don't know if the Furuno and TZ systems we use will do everything OpenCPN will do. Don't care, actually. I just want to turn ours on and use them. That works.

-Chris

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by ranger58sb

Our nav requirements are relatively lightweight. I don't remember ever thinking "I wish I could also do..." though. I don't know if the Furuno and TZ systems we use will do everything OpenCPN will do. Don't care, actually. I just want to turn ours on and use them. That works

As someone who has used Furuno/TZ in the past and a current OCPN user, there are definitely some things OCPN can do that TZ cannot, albeit not important to many. For remote and poorly charged areas, OCPN can, with some learning curve, use satellite maps as the base chart. This is incredibly important in reef strewn areas, many of which are poorly charged. Many of the commercial chart packages lag updates in remote areas that are frequented by cruisers. This is a very important benefit to OCPN and is the reason I bothered to endure the learning curve.

OCPN has a large menu of plugins that are unique to them, though most seem to be very narrow in use of applicability. Last I checked, the weather forecasting plugin still relies on SailMail GRIB interface which is clunky to say the least.

OCPN still interfaces primarily with 0183 and does not support all the functions a standard MFD/N2K system will. TZ/CE are much more adept.

As you suggest, learning curve for OCPN is substantial.

In my opinion, for vast majority of users with modest nav requirements such as yourself, the biggest advantage to OCPN is it's free, the premise of the OP.

[barcoMeCasa]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

For remote and poorly charged areas, OCPN can, with some learning curve, use satellite maps as the base chart.

Though to be fair the learning curve there isn't with opencpn using the mbtiles as charts, it's creating the mbtiles in the first place.
There are a few online sources already where individuals have generously made sat images available for download.
Not as base maps though, doesn't make any sense really, GSHHG basemap is much better suited for that.

Chart Downloads

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

As you suggest, learning curve for OCPN is substantial.

In my opinion, for vast majority of users with modest nav requirements such as yourself, the biggest advantage to OCPN is it's free, the premise of the OP.

That's what it's looked like to me... just from seeing traffic in this forum section.

My background was Unix in the '70s, DOS starting in the early '80s, Windows starting with V1.0 (useless 'til V3.1 IIRC)... power applications of various sorts over the years... and these days I just don't have time or desire to fool around with new systems or complicated apps. Even Android is a PITA for me, given so much is hidden from the user.

Free is not a virtue, for me; my time -- for doing other things -- is worth more.

Nice to know things like OpenCPN exist, and freeware had its value in my previous life, just not my cuppa these days.

Easier/faster for me to just use TZ and AquaMap.

-Chris