Would YOU buy this boat?

[DenverSailors]

We found a Boat we are very excited about and obtained a survey. She is 30+ years old so we weren’t expecting perfection (only my wife gets better with age!), but the report included items that cause this novice great pause. Would you mind sharing your thoughts on the below items?

An alternative, of course, is to ask for a price reduction and work these things out ourselves. Thoughts?

Very grateful for your time!!!

1. A FUEL LEAK WAS OBSERVED AT THE INJECTOR PUMP. REPAIR AS REQUIRED.

2. THE RUNNING RIGGING IS SHOWING AGE AND IS GETTING TO THE END OF ITS SERVICE LIFE. 4. INSTALL COTTER PINS IN THE STANDING RIGGING TURNBUCKLES AS REQUIRED.

3. ODOR WAS NOTED IN THE LPG TANK LOCKER. AND IN THE ENGINE ROOM. THE TANK LOCKER WAS NOT PROPERLY VENTED. INSPECT THE LPG SYSTEM AND SERVICE AS REQUIRED FOR PROPER AND SAFE OPERATION.

4. ELEVATED MOISTURE WAS OBSERVED IN THE HULL SIDES BELOW THE MIDSHIPS HAWSEPIPES. RESEAL HAWSEPIES AS REQUIRED. A REPAIR WAS NOTED ON THE STARBOARD HULL SIDE FORWARD OF MIDSHIPS. GELCOAT CRACKS AND ELEVATED MOISTURE WAS OBSERVED IN THIS LOCATION. MONITOR.

5. ELEVATED MOISTURE AND DELAMINATION WAS OBSERVED IN THE DECK AT: THE STARBOARD WEATHER DECK FROM THE WATER DECK PLATE AFT, THE ANCHOR LOCKER LID, THE CABIN TOP PORT SIDE FWD AROUND THE SIX MISSING FASTENER HOLES AND HAND RAIL, THE CABIN TOP STARBOARD FORWARD AROUND THE SOLAR VENT, AND AROUND THE TRAVELER AND AFT AT THE STERN CLEATS. RESEAL DECK HARDWARE AS REQUIRED.

6. SEVERAL OF THE BELOW THE WATERLINE THROUGH HULL BALL VALVES WERE STIFF AND CORRODED. SEVERAL HAD PLASTIC ELBOWS AND INCORRECT HOSE TYPES AND HOSES AT THE END OF THEIR SERVICE LIFE. INSPECT AND SERVICE AS REQUIRED ALL BELOW THE WATERLINE VALVES, HOSES, FITTINGS AND CLAMPS. SECURE THE WASTE DISCHARGE VALVE AND Y-VALVE IN THE CLOSED POSITION.

7. VALVE COVER GASKET WAS LEAKING. THE ENGINE OIL WAS LOW. TOP OFF AND MONITOR. THE PARKER FUEL FILTER WAS DIRTY.

8. THE BOW CLEATS ARE LOOSE.

9. THE PROPELLER SHAFT PACKING GLAND WAS WEEPING AT REST AND LOW RPMS. SERVICE AND REPACK AS REQUIRED.

10. RUDDER GLAND WAS WEEPING.

[Matt Johnson]

I would just repair the items suggested. If that's the worst of it, you're way ahead of the game.

But, I'd want to know what the readings were and a map of them for the aft deck and cabin top so you can correct the leaks and monitor or recore.

Matt

[ozsailer]

G'day Denver,
its very hard to make a determination based on the report without some further detail. You are likely to get a myriad of responces here, both positive and negative. Its great that you had a proffesinal surveyor undertake an examination of the vessel. Can you advise what the final comment in regard to the overall condition of the vessel by the surveyor.
Things like rigging etc can be costly to replace but generally an easy fix, This is something you are likely to find on boats of this age.
I must admit I do have concerns when your surveyor talked about delamination to sections of the decking. You do not indicate what the vessel is made of. Is it a composite build and if so what is the composite material as this "may" have an significant impact on the area to be repaired in the delaminated areas. If there is a local shipwright available it may be worth them looking at the areas of concern and getting quotes on repair.
At the end of the day it does not matter what boat you buy there are going to be a list of things to repair, its just a case of working out which one are managable and cost effective while enjoying your sailing.


Greg H
lagoon 410.

[Suijin]

Can't really say much at all without knowing a lot more. The type of boat, the price, it's location, and general condition other than the items cited in the survey based on visual inspection and poking around the boat.

The items listed point to a certain amount of extended neglect; holes in the deck/coachroof that have not been attended to, loose bow cleats, propane odor, dirty filter, etc. A survey can't turn up everything wrong with a boat as the surveyor only had limited time and there are areas of the boat they can't get to. In general, where there is smoke there is fire. I expect if you bought this boat the list of deferred maintenance items would grow longer as you used the boat and discovered more issues.

It's tempting when you find an old boat at a great price to overlook the problems you discover and say to yourself "Oh I could fix that...and that...and that." Before you know it addressing all those issues will negate that great price, and more. New standing rigging and thru-hulls alone, which are critical systems and clearly need to be replaced, could run you up near $10k depending on the boat.

I tell novices to look at lots of boats. Lots and lots, like 30+, during their shopping journey and bring along an experienced eye whenever possible. It will start to give you context about condition, price, cost of repair, etc. and develop some perspective on the overall market. Then, when you come across a boat in good condition at a good price you'll have some confidence to move forward with a purchase.

If you could tell us more about the boat, your needs and objectives, and your level of experience that would be helpful towards us giving you more specific advice.

[a64pilot]

Only thing that would worry me is the deck, I would have to know a lot more about that, but everything else is normally nickel dime day projects, nothing stressful.
Only way you will really know about any rigging is if you replace or have it replaced yourself. So expect to have it done on any boat if your really going offshore.
However price dictates whether this is a good boat or not, if it’s at the high end of its price range, then no, but if it’s at the lower end, yes, maybe.

[valhalla360]

How big are the rot and delamination areas? If they are just a few small areas and away from critical hardware, probably not a huge deal. If it's large areas and impacts key structural areas, I would walk away now.

I suggest getting the surveyor to get you prices to have the work done professionally and subtract that from the price if it was in good condition...not knowing what the make/model is I wouldn't be surprised if the owner would have to pay you to take the boat.

[SailsWithFists]

Based on the survey, my only concerns would be the deck.

What is the core? Balsa? Plywood? Foam? Is it sandwich construction? How large are the areas that are suspect? Etc. Are the decks spongy in those areas? Answers to these questions would help to determine how significant the repair project, and hence the final price to purchase (or determines if one should walk away from the deal.)

If it is just "wet" in the vicinity of the openings, then the problem is easily solved. But if the water is migrating...

Personally, I walk away from deck problems if they require more than 15%~ of the deck to be cut away and repaired. This is because the deck is a very important structure and its integrity is vital to the hull and in most cases the rig, while also keeping the water out of the hull. Depending on the core material, it is often difficult to ascertain the actual extent of the damage to the core, and thereby the integrity of the structure.

[zeehag]

i would need to see first pix then in person to assess the reality of the situation. some boats are worthy of repairs some are best walked away from. words mean nothing without pix of each situation and hull and topsides condition

[MV Wanderlust]

Finding 4 and finding 5 would be enough to make me walk away from any boat, regardless of age. There are plenty of 30 year old boats out there without moisture intrusion and delamination. As others have said, the rest sounds pretty much like nickel and dime, weekend repair stuff.

[dbaoter]

Some four years ago, friends bought a wood sailboat in Mazatlan, Mexico. A through survey was conducted, turning up some issues that needed attention. After the work was completed, off they went sailing the West coast of Mexico. The first two years were horrible. If something on the sailboat could break, it did. Spent a lot of time on cell phones, finding parts, then getting them, or on repairs. Today, this sailboat is in great condition, and the owners are having a great time,

For the first two years, we thought they were starstruck over this stupid investment. You have to make a choice on your vessel, being prepared for the consequences, seen and unforeseen.

[Drew13440]

the report included items that cause this novice great pause.

It should. Beyond re-bedding and tightening a deck cleat, none of these things is weekend tinkering work for a novice. Several of them are in fact major. Find a boat in better shape and pay up for it, your marriage may depend upon it.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by DenverSailors

We found a Boat we are very excited about and obtained a survey. She is 30+ years old so we weren’t expecting perfection (only my wife gets better with age!), but the report included items that cause this novice great pause. Would you mind sharing your thoughts on the below items?

An alternative, of course, is to ask for a price reduction and work these things out ourselves. Thoughts?

Very grateful for your time!!!

1. A FUEL LEAK WAS OBSERVED AT THE INJECTOR PUMP. REPAIR AS REQUIRED. Is it a leaking fitting or inj pump seals? Big difference in cost.

2. THE RUNNING RIGGING IS SHOWING AGE AND IS GETTING TO THE END OF ITS SERVICE LIFE. 4. INSTALL COTTER PINS IN THE STANDING RIGGING TURNBUCKLES AS REQUIRED. No big deal

3. ODOR WAS NOTED IN THE LPG TANK LOCKER. AND IN THE ENGINE ROOM. THE TANK LOCKER WAS NOT PROPERLY VENTED. INSPECT THE LPG SYSTEM AND SERVICE AS REQUIRED FOR PROPER AND SAFE OPERATION. Ferret out if this is correctable, or difficult by design, walk away if not.

4. ELEVATED MOISTURE WAS OBSERVED IN THE HULL SIDES BELOW THE MIDSHIPS HAWSEPIPES. RESEAL HAWSEPIES AS REQUIRED. A REPAIR WAS NOTED ON THE STARBOARD HULL SIDE FORWARD OF MIDSHIPS. GELCOAT CRACKS AND ELEVATED MOISTURE WAS OBSERVED IN THIS LOCATION. MONITOR. Is it a cored hull? If so WALK AWAY.

5. ELEVATED MOISTURE AND DELAMINATION WAS OBSERVED IN THE DECK AT: THE STARBOARD WEATHER DECK FROM THE WATER DECK PLATE AFT, THE ANCHOR LOCKER LID, THE CABIN TOP PORT SIDE FWD AROUND THE SIX MISSING FASTENER HOLES AND HAND RAIL, THE CABIN TOP STARBOARD FORWARD AROUND THE SOLAR VENT, AND AROUND THE TRAVELER AND AFT AT THE STERN CLEATS. RESEAL DECK HARDWARE AS REQUIRED. Hmmmm, depends on how picky you are, but these are not a good sign. I will say though, that most boats have some of this going on. Minor areas not too big a deal. Large areas around high stresses areas not good.

6. SEVERAL OF THE BELOW THE WATERLINE THROUGH HULL BALL VALVES WERE STIFF AND CORRODED. SEVERAL HAD PLASTIC ELBOWS AND INCORRECT HOSE TYPES AND HOSES AT THE END OF THEIR SERVICE LIFE. INSPECT AND SERVICE AS REQUIRED ALL BELOW THE WATERLINE VALVES, HOSES, FITTINGS AND CLAMPS. SECURE THE WASTE DISCHARGE VALVE AND Y-VALVE IN THE CLOSED POSITION. Not unusual, will take some work to renew this though.

7. VALVE COVER GASKET WAS LEAKING. THE ENGINE OIL WAS LOW. TOP OFF AND MONITOR. THE PARKER FUEL FILTER WAS DIRTY. Be careful, this could be an indicator of a well worn engine. Or it could just be normal. Very hard to say. Most VC gasket leaks wont cause a big oil loss, so the engine is burning some oil likely. But it's a diesel, the do burn some oil. You have no way of knowing if it's just been forever since the oil was checked or the engine is well worn... other than getting a compression test.

8. THE BOW CLEATS ARE LOOSE. Another indicator that goes along with wet core around fittings. It appears you are in for a complete deck fitting removal and rebedding.

9. THE PROPELLER SHAFT PACKING GLAND WAS WEEPING AT REST AND LOW RPMS. SERVICE AND REPACK AS REQUIRED. May just need tightening. Not a big deal.

10. RUDDER GLAND WAS WEEPING.Ditto

No easy answers, but notes above. It looks to me like there is an easy $10k of work there as a SWAG.

[NevisDog]

Everything your surveyor lists shows neglect. Since you are asking our advice, this tells me you do not yet have the knowledge to assess for yourself the full extent of the problem nor the skills to put it right. These two taken together spell "walk away now". If not, costs will escalate beyond your wildest dreams.

Find a boat that has been well cared for and maintenance of engine and hull is up-to-date. When you find such a boat, lay aside half your money for the usual costs (new cushions/covers, new stove, new antifoul and a myriad of little jobs that will still take many months to fix. Leave the doer-uppers for those with vast experience of doing-up.

[Mithril Bham]

Need to know a lot more but you can be sure you will find more issues. Engine not being maintained is troubling. Hull problems very concerning. Sounds like an expensive project. Beware of emotional purchases.

[hamburking]

Like others have said, it would help to know the make, model, size and location of the boat we are discussing. Your intended use is also important.

From the info you have given, you could do the most urgent of the repairs first, and have a boat you could day sail or overnight on protected waters. This should be reflected in the price. If its a small boat, new running rigging isn't a big deal. The bigger the boat, the bigger an issue, as the price rises quickly with line size and length. Standing rigging is a whole nother thing...and a boat that age should have already had the standing rigging replaced...the original rig is already past its safe life span.

The leaking oil, and leaking fuel pump are going to be either time consuming (if you have the skills) or expensive to have repaired. Whatever you think it will cost, triple it. There will be suprises. You did not mention if the engine even runs. On a small boat, you can throw an outboard on the stern. The cost of inboard engine repairs can easily be greater than the value of the boat.

But to answer you question....YES, I would buy that boat, BUT I would not pay much for it. You buy a boat with known issues to get a good price. Also, whatever the survey found...there are plenty more issues he did not find. If you are not handy or rich, you should walk away.

At some point, a boat is still a bad deal even if free.

You should ask yourself if you want to buy a boat so you can go sailing, or to spend a year or so with filthy hands in a boatyard, bleeding money?