Videos of Anchors Setting

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Panope

Interesting! I had not heard of that anchor before. Sort of the Danforth of next-gen anchors. But I wonder, what if the flukes had just a hair more angle and if the tips and shank were sharpened? My feeling is that it may improve its setting and diving, but still impressive. Thanks Steve!

[chris95040]

Originally Posted by Panope

The effects of scale is topic in which I have only scratched the surface.

Ah hah! Fine anchor wordplay, sir.


(Love the work you’ve put into this topic, too.)

[Panope]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsobS6LCGrk

[Izikalvo]

Originally Posted by Panope

As said before your videos are invaluable both to users and manufacturers.

Your Viking 20 will arrive at you this Tuesday, as for what happened to the 7 in your test, it was quite a pull against a huge boulder for this tiny anchor but nevertheless, as of December 2020, the Viking toe design was changed to an even stronger design changing the welding point to a V shape and extending the support of the boot forward to support the toe from the back.

If you wish to get a Viking 10 also please let us know.

Good job.

[Panope]

Thanks, Izi

I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say how much we appreciate a manufacturer who accepts a 'less than perfect' outcome - in a positive manner.

A Viking 10 would be a welcome addition as testing of anchors in the "10kg." range will be a permanent part of my research.

I look forward to the arrival of the 20kg. Viking, this week.

Cheers,

Steve

[Panope]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smgWTtFuk3U

[Jahwork]

Steve,

As usual, thank you so much for your time and dedication to anchors. Just wanted to mostly say thanks, and also let you know, although you have probably already seen it, there is a listing for a 14lb “Hurricane” anchor on Seattle CL. I had never heard or seen of the brand until finding that posting. Not sure if you have any interest but just FYI. I hope all is well and that you survived our snow last week without incident. I look forward to hearing more from you and seeing you again soon.

~Jake

[Muaddib1116]

Thanks Steve for another great video!

I had some thoughts about your rating system, and I think overall it's a pretty good way of doing it. What it also allows is for your audience to customize how they view your results. People that care more about one type of seabed or performance characteristic can weight various categories more by multiplying that column by some factor. They can also remove a category that they might not care about, say price or corrosion, for those that want the best anchor regardless of cost or longevity.

Personally, I think these results vindicate my recent decision to invest in a Sarca Excel #9 and an aluminum Spade A200 (I wish they would send you one to test) (I bought an aluminum Spade instead of an aluminum Excel, because Sarca only makes their aluminum Excels up to a #8).

I look forward to you testing the 45lb range in the clean sand.

I have put more focus into the results of your 45lb range than the 20lb range, mostly because those results are more representative of the anchor sizes used by cruisers, and definitely more representative of the anchor sizes I am interested in (~100lb-120lb range). It is interesting to look at how the same anchors perform differently between the 20lb and 45lb range though. I have had a thought for a while that designs probably don't scale perfectly, and performance obviously will probably go down as the anchor size goes down. And as the size goes up, it may be able to hide weaknesses in design.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Panope

Very cool.As you say, different bottoms, different results.


I've done a good bit of testing pulling anchors primarily in very soft mud (because that is the local problem) with winches using my PDQ32 catamaran. I used the primary winches, often with a 2:1 tackle rigged to reach high enough force.

• I used 2 anchors most of the time to stabilize the boat. Otherwise, yawing with wind shifts made things more complicated. You are at long scope to maximize hold, so the transom can move pretty far. Also, I could be more certain that the anchors were not moving, and it was easier to recover them. Set any anchor too deep and it's a challenge, pull a Fortress many feet into the mud you might not ever get it back. This can be a major issue, so be careful. Bigger is better, because it does not go as deep. With two anchors they don't go as deep.
• I used a Dyneema leader with a 10' webbing chafe cover at the anchor end and no chain on the anchor I rowed out (Fortress). You don't need chain and it so much easier to handle and break out.
• Strong bridle. While working at the back of the boat, it's easy to forget that you are loading the anchors beyond huricane force. Double check those cleats, and consider sharing with the midships cleats.
• Yes, the forces get crazy. I never broke anything, but I was carefull to stay out of the recoil zone.
• If not using all chain (and you can't if you are going to winch), I suggest polyester rode tails. The stretch of nylon is extreme, resulting in more winching and scary recoil. In fact, there is little reason to use much chain, because at over 1000 pounds, often several times that, there really isn't much catenary. Ignore the peanut gallery. Dyneema could work, but it needs a polyester cover ($$$). I used retired halyards from big boats.
• Consider whether it is the max tension you record, or the tension that is maintained after you quit winching. If the tension falls, that means the anchor was still moving.
• Holding capacity can be rate sensitive. Also, the longer an anchor set, holding capacity tends to go up, even more so if you pull on it occasionally. So you have to watch the time.
• Give some though to how you are going to break the anchors out. Sometimes I could do it from the dingy. Sometimes I would drift back over the anchor (didn't want to re-anchor the boat each time). I set it up so I could pull them straight up between the hulls (catamaran). I don't know what will work for you.

And always have fun! It's pretty interesting.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Muaddib1116

Thanks Steve for another great video!

I had some thoughts about your rating system, and I think overall it's a pretty good way of doing it. What it also allows is for your audience to customize how they view your results. People that care more about one type of seabed or performance characteristic can weight various categories more by multiplying that column by some factor. They can also remove a category that they might not care about, say price or corrosion, for those that want the best anchor regardless of cost or longevity.

Personally, I think these results vindicate my recent decision to invest in a Sarca Excel #9 and an aluminum Spade A200 (I wish they would send you one to test) (I bought an aluminum Spade instead of an aluminum Excel, because Sarca only makes their aluminum Excels up to a #8).

I look forward to you testing the 45lb range in the clean sand.

I have put more focus into the results of your 45lb range than the 20lb range, mostly because those results are more representative of the anchor sizes used by cruisers, and definitely more representative of the anchor sizes I am interested in (~100lb-120lb range). It is interesting to look at how the same anchors perform differently between the 20lb and 45lb range though. I have had a thought for a while that designs probably don't scale perfectly, and performance obviously will probably go down as the anchor size goes down. And as the size goes up, it may be able to hide weaknesses in design.

Yes, I encourage people to "customize" the ratings to suit their own needs. In fact, there is no reason not to "plug in" data from other persons tests.

Steve

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Jahwork

Steve,

As usual, thank you so much for your time and dedication to anchors. Just wanted to mostly say thanks, and also let you know, although you have probably already seen it, there is a listing for a 14lb “Hurricane” anchor on Seattle CL. I had never heard or seen of the brand until finding that posting. Not sure if you have any interest but just FYI. I hope all is well and that you survived our snow last week without incident. I look forward to hearing more from you and seeing you again soon.

~Jake

Thanks Jake,

I did not see that Hurricane anchor, thanks for the heads up. However, I will probably not pursue it as I am becoming swamped with anchors and tests. Need to focus on the popular anchors for now.

Steve

[Panope]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Very cool.As you say, different bottoms, different results.


I've done a good bit of testing pulling anchors primarily in very soft mud (because that is the local problem) with winches using my PDQ32 catamaran. I used the primary winches, often with a 2:1 tackle rigged to reach high enough force.

• I used 2 anchors most of the time to stabilize the boat. Otherwise, yawing with wind shifts made things more complicated. You are at long scope to maximize hold, so the transom can move pretty far. Also, I could be more certain that the anchors were not moving, and it was easier to recover them. Set any anchor too deep and it's a challenge, pull a Fortress many feet into the mud you might not ever get it back. This can be a major issue, so be careful. Bigger is better, because it does not go as deep. With two anchors they don't go as deep.
• I used a Dyneema leader with a 10' webbing chafe cover at the anchor end and no chain on the anchor I rowed out (Fortress). You don't need chain and it so much easier to handle and break out.
• Strong bridle. While working at the back of the boat, it's easy to forget that you are loading the anchors beyond huricane force. Double check those cleats, and consider sharing with the midships cleats.
• Yes, the forces get crazy. I never broke anything, but I was carefull to stay out of the recoil zone.
• If not using all chain (and you can't if you are going to winch), I suggest polyester rode tails. The stretch of nylon is extreme, resulting in more winching and scary recoil. In fact, there is little reason to use much chain, because at over 1000 pounds, often several times that, there really isn't much catenary. Ignore the peanut gallery. Dyneema could work, but it needs a polyester cover ($$$). I used retired halyards from big boats.
• Consider whether it is the max tension you record, or the tension that is maintained after you quit winching. If the tension falls, that means the anchor was still moving.
• Holding capacity can be rate sensitive. Also, the longer an anchor set, holding capacity tends to go up, even more so if you pull on it occasionally. So you have to watch the time.
• Give some though to how you are going to break the anchors out. Sometimes I could do it from the dingy. Sometimes I would drift back over the anchor (didn't want to re-anchor the boat each time). I set it up so I could pull them straight up between the hulls (catamaran). I don't know what will work for you.

And always have fun! It's pretty interesting.

Thanks for the info, Thinwater.

-I will rig tripping lines/floats to aid in retrieval

-Rope portions of rode(s) will be Dyneema in 10 foot segments, "daisy chained" together to allow belaying/winch pennant attachment (at junctions)

-Winch is a 12Volt "truck winch" of 10,000 lb. Capacity. This will "standardize" the rate of pull.

-(small) Boat will be "pulled down" into the water. This is both dangerous and also advantageous as tension will remain in the system after winch is stopped (as long as anchor is not dragging).

-Both rodes will "exit" the boat as low as possible so as to increase stability. A nearly horizontal "hawse pipe" will be welded into the bow near waterline.

-Load path (between the two anchors) will NOT include the vessel. Heavy chain plates will pass through the transom (rode attachment on outside, winch attachment on inside).

-All components will be generously sized. (yes, the Dyneema will cost a fortune).

-There will be many ways in which I can be injured/killed. Must be vigilant.

This will be fun.

Steve

[BigBeakie]

Steve,

Excellent summary criteria & video, that I hope your work gets wide viewing amongst cruisers.

We went with the Excel several years ago and upsized one size ( #7) compared to Rex's recommendation for our 50' cat, based on wind loading at anchor in bad conditions and poorer holding in coral rubble, where I think bigger is better. I think you will find the holding power of the Excel in sandy bottom to be huge if his T.A.T.S machine is to be believed.

RE dyneema cost, we found good Dyneema pricing for Acera Amundsen at Greenline Fishing Gear and their shipping is reasonable and fast, even though it's from Denmark.

Greenline Fishing Gear - Acera HMPE

What will be the "fuse" in your testing gear? What will break when one of these anchors refuses to budge?

[Panope]

Originally Posted by BigBeakie

Steve,

Excellent summary criteria & video, that I hope your work gets wide viewing amongst cruisers.

We went with the Excel several years ago and upsized one size ( #7) compared to Rex's recommendation for our 50' cat, based on wind loading at anchor in bad conditions and poorer holding in coral rubble, where I think bigger is better. I think you will find the holding power of the Excel in sandy bottom to be huge if his T.A.T.S machine is to be believed.

RE dyneema cost, we found good Dyneema pricing for Acera Amundsen at Greenline Fishing Gear and their shipping is reasonable and fast, even though it's from Denmark.

Greenline Fishing Gear - Acera HMPE

What will be the "fuse" in your testing gear? What will break when one of these anchors refuses to budge?

Thanks for the tip about the ACERA, BB

I will size everything to NOT fail. In the event of emergency (runaway winch, boat going under) the line will be cut by one of many SHARP knives positioned around the boat.

Speaking of the runaway winch, Does anyone have a source for an emergency stop switch that will be good for 12volt/400amp?

Steve

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Panope

Speaking of the runaway winch, Does anyone have a source for an emergency stop switch that will be good for 12volt/400amp?

I'd probably just a heavy duty battery switch. I know blue sea and others make some rated as high as 600 amps continuous.