Rocna or Manson Supreme? (OP Ducks His Head)

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

They can't sting your hands. Skin to tough on hands.

Yes true. But if you touch yourself anywhere else before washing your hands (like wiping sweat from your face while straining the anchor up in Chesapeake summer heat) you will transfer the stinging to that thinner skin. Ask me how I know from cruising for 15+ years on Chesapeake with rope rode and no windlass

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by malbert73

You do need someone to drive up as chain is retrieved so it’s mostly vertical and not under tension but that’s good practice anyway

Nope
65 tonne boat, never drive up as we overshoot (5.5 knots clicked in gear) and have chain rash down the hull and lose antifoul
All chain retrieve in less than 30 knots done with windlass only

Get a windlass that's up for the job, don't cheap out.

[rslifkin]

Typically we drive up on the chain just to keep us pointed into the wind so it comes into the roller more nicely. The windlass will pull the boat forward without straining in any reasonable wind, but if we're 60* off the wind while swinging, stuff doesn't come into the roller so nicely under tension.

We also idle too fast to just idle forward (4 kts with both engines in gear), so it's usually rotate the boat to the wind, then start retrieving. From there, it's short blasts of forward on one engine at a time, spending most of the time slowly coasting forward in neutral. Having a fast windlass makes it easier not to overshoot, but to make an overshoot impossible, we'd still need much more retrieve speed. In our case, we have enough bow overhang and flare that a slight overshoot won't put chain into the hull, so it's easier to manage.

[Chotu]

You know what?

I just pull it all in with the windlass. Ha ha ha.

Even my little Lofrans manual windlass on my 50’ high windage cat. No motoring, just pulling the boat to the anchor by windlass. I even break it out of the ground with the windlass 9 times out of 10. If you do that slowly, it just breaks out easily. I’ve been doing the same with the electric windlass on the mono.

I’ve never had a problem doing this. Boats sail at anchor a bit. So when the chain is slack as it “tacks” from one side to the other, I take some chain in.

I find it impossible to motor at .0001 knots upwind without the wind blowing me to port or starboard so I don’t bother fighting it.

I just let nature take its course and work within the moments of slack chain I’m given by the natural movement of the boat.

[Panope]

I am another "pull boat to the anchor with windlass" type.

Which has me thinking more about my "manual windlass = clean chain" theory. If the rode is stretched out tight, each crank (surge) of the windlass translates into a bit of catenary being removed. Seems like the perfect motion to shake/wash mud from the links.

Steve

[CarinaPDX]

I think the best way to bring the chain up with a windlass, if one is not going to drive the boat forward with the engine, is to pull in just enough chain to remove most of the catenary, then wait until the catenary re-forms and do it again. The boat will gradually pick up some forward momentum so the process speeds up as it progresses. This keeps the loads on the windlass low and allows time for the motor to dissipate heat, and it just costs a little patience. Because the boat is not underway it is possible for a singlehander to be on the foredeck and be knocking down the chain pile in the locker as it comes in, until the rode is near vertical; then it can be quickly lifted without further attendance.

I suspect in calm conditions most windlasses will bring in the chain while pulling the boat forward without a problem; it is just a bad habit to get into. In the worst case scenario with all of the chain out and strong wind and waves it is a recipe for burning out the motor. No doubt an oversize windlass can prevent this but most of us don't size our windlasses that way. Anyway it really isn't a problem for even a singlehander to bring in the chain while motoring forward with controls and a chain counter in the cockpit, aside from possibly having to go forward and knock down the pile.

Greg

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

I suspect in calm conditions most windlasses will bring in the chain while pulling the boat forward without a problem; it is just a bad habit to get into. In the worst case scenario with all of the chain out and strong wind and waves it is a recipe for burning out the motor. No doubt an oversize windlass can prevent this but most of us don't size our windlasses that way.

Our windlass and I would think most would be the same, has a clutch for fast drop, but also if adjusted will allow for retrieval but slip if any "real" load is applied therefore preventing damage and burn out.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Yes true. But if you touch yourself anywhere else before washing your hands (like wiping sweat from your face while straining the anchor up in Chesapeake summer heat) you will transfer the stinging to that thinner skin. Ask me how I know from cruising for 15+ years on Chesapeake with rope rode and no windlass

How do you know?

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

How do you know?

Sweet- I bet myself you would take the bait and ask[emoji3]

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Simi 60

Nope
65 tonne boat, never drive up as we overshoot (5.5 knots clicked in gear) and have chain rash down the hull and lose antifoul
All chain retrieve in less than 30 knots done with windlass only

Get a windlass that's up for the job, don't cheap out.

Agree- my windlass can get the chain and anchor up, and I also don’t think that’s a recipe for longevity. And, with a sailboat like mine, an oversized horizontal windlass wouldn’t look great and would get in the way of sail handling.
I think many of your conclusions are perfectly correct with a 65 ton large poweryacht (nice boat btw!) and don’t translate to smaller sailing cruisers

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Sweet- I bet myself you would take the bait and ask[emoji3]

Hook, line, and sinker.

[sailing_gal]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

I think the best way to bring the chain up with a windlass, if one is not going to drive the boat forward with the engine, is to pull in just enough chain to remove most of the catenary, then wait until the catenary re-forms and do it again. The boat will gradually pick up some forward momentum so the process speeds up as it progresses. This keeps the loads on the windlass low and allows time for the motor to dissipate heat, and it just costs a little patience. Because the boat is not underway it is possible for a singlehander to be on the foredeck and be knocking down the chain pile in the locker as it comes in, until the rode is near vertical; then it can be quickly lifted without further attendance.

I suspect in calm conditions most windlasses will bring in the chain while pulling the boat forward without a problem; it is just a bad habit to get into. In the worst case scenario with all of the chain out and strong wind and waves it is a recipe for burning out the motor. No doubt an oversize windlass can prevent this but most of us don't size our windlasses that way. Anyway it really isn't a problem for even a singlehander to bring in the chain while motoring forward with controls and a chain counter in the cockpit, aside from possibly having to go forward and knock down the pile.

Greg

Yep, that's how I do it single-handed. I just take my time and slowly bring in the catenary of the chain and let the boat's momentum pull me forward. I also installed a rather oversized windlass. As far as I am concerned, ground tackle is the one thing I don't want to fail!

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by malbert73

Yes true. But if you touch yourself anywhere else before washing your hands (like wiping sweat from your face while straining the anchor up in Chesapeake summer heat) you will transfer the stinging to that thinner skin. Ask me how I know from cruising for 15+ years on Chesapeake with rope rode and no windlass

Sea nettles/jelly fish etc are pretty simple to deal with when they are just on your anchor rode, it's when they are on your fishing line and get blown back in your face that is a real problem.

Or when water skiing and you fall in a spot that is white with sea nettles.....Ouch!.

[Flatswing]

Rocha will be fine. One consistent thing Steve (SV Panope) found in his short scope ‘torture’ tests Was that the Rocha is very sensitive to crud on the Flukes inhibiting full bury. If you you get a hard set 1st go -I think it will be brilliant. With a ‘soft’ set, I fully retrieve, Inspect & wash it off completely, then redeploy.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Flatswing

Rocha will be fine. One consistent thing Steve (SV Panope) found in his short scope ‘torture’ tests Was that the Rocha is very sensitive to crud on the Flukes inhibiting full bury. If you you get a hard set 1st go -I think it will be brilliant. With a ‘soft’ set, I fully retrieve, Inspect & wash it off completely, then redeploy.

More honesty:

I just toss my Manson Supremes overboard with the required scope and forget about them.

The boat natural goes in the right direction for the set and the chain comes taught, setting the anchor perfectly using the boat’s momentum and tensile forces of the chain.

I found this was the only way to get my old CQR to set properly back in the day, as backing down on it caused it to drag instead of set. When I let it set naturally it alway worked first try.

I’ve done it this way for nearly 30 years now, with more nights spent sleeping at anchor than on land.

I’ve never dragged in my life. Even with a CQR many years ago. Even Through hurricane force winds this spring on my mono. Even through the eye of hurricane Irma with my catamaran/Manson Supreme.

Set is just set to me. No hard or soft sets. Never had that distinction.

So I’m hoping the Rocna works the same way.