Only 100' of chain, what to do?

[Stu Jackson]

My friend Steve told me this (for his Catalina 34):


Steve’s Anchoring 101

The Rocna. All 20kg of it with 100ft of chain. The rest of the world can debate all they like. When I pull into a place like Bodega Bay at midnight and the fog is so thick I can't see the jetty 50 feet away to make an entrance, I drop my hook in the rolling ocean swells with the surf crashing (Foster says it's like staying in a cheap Best Western beside the highway), and I sleep. And in the morning I have a windlass to pull the beast up and I wouldn't trade it for anything. (I also wouldn't add more chain - this works perfectly in 25 to 30 feet of water - you let all the chain out and you tie off nylon at the preferred scope and don't bother with separate snubbers and chain hooks and all that stuff...)


You may borrow the technique by keeping your 100 feet of chain. I read all the anchoring threads here and elsewhere, and rarely find where having any amount of chain still in your locker does you any good.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by paulg222

I recently purchased a 1999 Catalina 42 and the anchor setup has a 25lb rocna anchor with 100' of chain going to a maxwell 1500 vertical windlass. My problem is that I think 100' of chain is just not practical for many anchoring situations. It is fine for maybe getting close to a beach where you can get to maybe 10' depth, but what do you do when you need to anchor in 20+ feet and want at least 5:1 scope?

So what is best option for me:
1) Extend existing chain with 100' more chain and link them with a standard shackle (maxwell claims in some literature that their gypsy can handle a standard shackle but I'm suspicious). Also would like to know from 42 owners if there is enough space under the windlass for 200' of chain to pile up, or if maybe this is why previous owner only had 100'.
2) Extend existing chain with 100' of anchor rode (rope) and link them with either shackle/thimble combination (again maxwell claims this is possible but I'm unclear) or splice the rode to the chain (probably safer but takes some more effort to get right).
3) Just replace old chain with 200' of new chain (I guess the most straight forward option but more $). Still need to know if 200' will pile up and fit under the windlass.

Or feel free just to share your anchoring setup if you have similar boat.
Thanks.

100 ft works in many/most situations. But it does depend on where you cruise. Most of the Carribean I used 75-100 feet daily at 5:1 anchoring. I always looked for under 20 feet of water and found it. Most often in the 15 ft range. I did have 200 ft of chain though.

The back breaking work is lifting the anchor off the bottom and up. So you are doing that in 15 -25 feet of water almost all the time..... the point here is you can use the chain and windlass for that final lifting after the rope is already in the boat!
Pulling or motoring the boat up to where it is over the anchor is easy peasy. You can do that and stuff the rope into the locker before any effort is involved.

You CAN put a link in your chain and add 50 feet if you want. It may 'jump' going through the windlass but work ok.

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by paulg222

I recently purchased a 1999 Catalina 42 and the anchor setup has a 25lb rocna anchor with 100' of chain going to a maxwell 1500 vertical windlass. My problem is that I think 100' of chain is just not practical for many anchoring situations. It is fine for maybe getting close to a beach where you can get to maybe 10' depth, but what do you do when you need to anchor in 20+ feet and want at least 5:1 scope?



So what is best option for me:

1) Extend existing chain with 100' more chain and link them with a standard shackle (maxwell claims in some literature that their gypsy can handle a standard shackle but I'm suspicious). Also would like to know from 42 owners if there is enough space under the windlass for 200' of chain to pile up, or if maybe this is why previous owner only had 100'.

2) Extend existing chain with 100' of anchor rode (rope) and link them with either shackle/thimble combination (again maxwell claims this is possible but I'm unclear) or splice the rode to the chain (probably safer but takes some more effort to get right).

3) Just replace old chain with 200' of new chain (I guess the most straight forward option but more $). Still need to know if 200' will pile up and fit under the windlass.



Or feel free just to share your anchoring setup if you have similar boat.

Thanks.

You are good up to 25’ of water. Run the 100’ of chain plus 24’ of nylon out. Even if the wind and current is absolutely dead calm and the rode is hanging straight down the rope-chain join will still be 1’ above the sea floor and not able to chafe on anything.

If the wind comes up you have nylon in the system to absorb shocks and if it’s heavy enough to want more than 5:1 scope you can veer more line with no worries about it sagging down and chafing.

I would be happy with this up to around 35’-40’ depth with decreasing scope then I would want to shackle one another 100’.

[valhalla360]

If you put out 100ft of chain in 10ft of water, expect nasty gestures when no one else can get in the anchorage.

As others have said, even 5-1 is fairly conservative on all chain.

[DefinitelyMe]

Other options that may appeal:

Join two chains using a G4 or G7 chain link. Just change out that link every now and then.

Attach a piece of light line to the end of the chain attached to a strong point in the anchor locker. When all the chain is out the anchor will be on the bottom and that line lightly loaded. Attach whatever line you want to use with a soft shackle or whatever about two feet from the end of the chain. Put that rope on the drum, take up tension and release the light line from the end of the chain. Let out as much scope as you want. For retrieval, use the drum. When you get to the chain, stick the two-foot tail into the gypsy, ease and then detach the line and carry on retrieving. Transition takes seconds and you can use whatever line you already have.

[Manateeman]

Try a double clevis connector. It’s an easy test and will give you the option of adding chain. We have a Maxwell and it jumps a bit but goes around fine.
Mark

[paulg222]

Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe

Other options that may appeal:

Join two chains using a G4 or G7 chain link. Just change out that link every now and then.

Attach a piece of light line to the end of the chain attached to a strong point in the anchor locker. When all the chain is out the anchor will be on the bottom and that line lightly loaded. Attach whatever line you want to use with a soft shackle or whatever about two feet from the end of the chain. Put that rope on the drum, take up tension and release the light line from the end of the chain. Let out as much scope as you want. For retrieval, use the drum. When you get to the chain, stick the two-foot tail into the gypsy, ease and then detach the line and carry on retrieving. Transition takes seconds and you can use whatever line you already have.

Thanks, I like the approach you have for adding on the rode with 2ft chain at the end so you can feed that into the gypsy on retrieval. Thanks I may give it a try.

[MicHughV]

Just going to add my 2c in here.....

I've anchored various sailboats for 35 years, always using the same system, which was developed over a period thru' time and effort. Some boats had an anchor windlass others not.

I use all nylon rode with a 75' length of chain at the end, this is a combo, that for me, has worked splendidly in most all anchoring situations I've come across.

Without the windlass, I give the rode a quick pull, which allows the boat to drift forward, when the rode goes slack I pull in a few feet and repeat. Never had a problem doing this.

If it's really windy, I will use the engine to " bump" me forward and pull in the rode as above.

If the anchor is really dug in, and I have no windlass, the object is to get the bow of the boat straight over the anchor and clinch of the chain. Wave action will usually allow the bow to raise a few inches, breaking the anchor free.

As above, in windy conditions, I will use the engine to " bump" me forward. Once directly over the anchor, I will tie off the chain and allow boat motion to break the anchor free.

I'm never in a hurry to raise the anchor, just take my time and let boat motion (or engine power) do most of the work.

Never had any problems, issues, etc doing it this way. It's the way I like to do it and may not suit others, but it works for me.

[paulg222]

[Just going to add my 2c in here.....

I've anchored various sailboats for 35 years, always using the same system, which was developed over a period thru' time and effort. Some boats had an anchor windlass others not. ...]

Thanks, yeah I have rope/chain combo on my other smaller boat that I'm selling, and never used a windlass, but I think the question here is about the windlass. Sure you can just not use a windlass but then you are hauling up 75' of chain. My older boat only has 30' chain and that is not too bad. But for 75-100 ft, seems a bit much for manual haul up to me. So the question was really about how to get a setup that works with a windlass (and mine is apparently a chain only windlass with separate drum on top where rope/rode can be used) where I'm either adding or extending with rope, or just replacing with longer chain, or extending with chain. Thanks for your help, good general advise.

[MicHughV]

Well, my first boat was 38', 20,000 lb displacement, and no windlass.

There were time when I needed a little " help" getting the chain up.

To this end, I made up a 25' lenght of 5/8" nylon rode to which I fitted a " chain hook" on the end.

I fit the chain hook over the chain at the bow roller and lead the bitter end back to the main halyard winch on the mast. In this manner, I was able to provide sufficient power to get the anchor chain up. My mast was probably about 15' back from the bow, so I could pull up 15' of chain and then had to re-position the chain hook and repeat.

I didn't often have to resort to this method, but when I did, it did the trick just fine.

[Benz]

perhaps, for just a little more than the cost of new chain, you could get a decent horizontal manual windlass with a rope/chain gypsy. I find horizontal windlasses far easier to manage, since I haul slack, both of chain and rope, in by hand, dropping it in the hawse (or spurling pipe, for the purists) and I go, and engage the windlass only when the chain gets heavy. This is harder to do with a vertical windlass where the pipe is 180 degrees from where you're facing to pull.
With this method, I get my 45lb anchor in a lot faster than I can on other boats with vertical windlasses, and find it far preferable.

[Scubaseas]

Originally Posted by Benz

First of all, you need a bigger anchor than 25 lb for a 42-foot boat.
Second, you rarely need as much as 5:1 scope. If you need more than 100 feet out, splicing to an octoplait or brait rope will be fine.
Your Catalina won't thank you for the weight of 100 extra feet of chain, even if it does fit, and you're gonna put the weight of a heavier anchor out there already.

This x2. Brait coils nice and flat. 55lb anchor wouldn't be my first choice for a primary. I'd go up one size from recommended. But that's just me. Beware of roll bar anchors in kelp....

[Chris Cringle]

Bite the bullet and buy 200 feet of new chain. Remember, you bet your boat. The old 100 feet can be used for a second bow anchor or a stern anchor.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by paulg222

I recently purchased a 1999 Catalina 42 and the anchor setup has a 25lb rocna anchor with 100' of chain going to a maxwell 1500 vertical windlass. My problem is that I think 100' of chain is just not practical for many anchoring situations. It is fine for maybe getting close to a beach where you can get to maybe 10' depth, but what do you do when you need to anchor in 20+ feet and want at least 5:1 scope?

Rocna doesn't make a 25Lb anchor. They make a 10KG, a 20KG and a 25 KG (25KG = 55lbs)

We're a bit east of you in Westerly, RI. We anchor in Sag Harbor, Coecles, Montuak, Watch Hill, Block Island.

I can't think of many places where we've needed to anchor in more than 15 feet of water. We have 130 feet of chain and 150 feet of line. In the last 15 years, we've never had to let out more than 105 feet of chain.

Where are you anchoring in 25 feet of water?

[GrowleyMonster]

First, you might want to install a riding pawl forward of the windlass. If you use combination rode, when heaving anchor use the gypsy to bring in the rope rode and a few feet of chain. Ease it back out and let the pawl have the load. Now you can freely transfer the chain to the wildcat and then continue heaving. Of course you could also just use a devil's claw, pelican hook, or a plain old chain hook, but a riding pawl is very convenient and secure. You can also stick a very big screwdriver or steel rod through the chain, for a true redneck chain stopper, but I really like a riding pawl. Probably because I don't have one LOL!

The advice to switch to a longer chain is sound, if uneconomical. A solid piece of chain is without a doubt the best rode. I don't like the idea of connecting two chains, TBH. Of course you need to figure out how much chain you can handle, too. Arrange your chain neatly in the chain locker and mark the level of the top of the pile. Pay all of your chain out, at the dock of course so you don't risk losing all your ground tackle. Cut plywood and 2 x 4 to make a new floor for the chain locker right where the old chain topped off. Now, heave in all your chain and see if it fits. A 42' boat should be able to hold 200' of 3/8" chain, without too much trouble, or at least nearly 200'. You don't want to crowd the top of the chain locker and the bottom of the spill pipe, though. This can cause problems. OTOH, at the dock the chain will naturally stack itself right under the spillpipe but at all but the most protected anchorages, the motion of the boat should make piles topple over and spread out. Galvanized chain is particularly prone to stacking, BTW. Anyway with the space taken by the first 100' of chain occupied with the wooden temporary floor or cribbing, see how much more chain she will hold. If you have room for the whole chain with room to spare, then you know you can get a new 200' chain to fit. If you have to cut off a piece, no big loss, since you can use it as a chain stinger with some nylon for your backup rode or a stern anchor or lunch hook. A standard barrel of 3/8" chain is 400 feet. I know because that is what I bought for Brute Force. A half barrel, then, would be 200 feet. With all chain, unless you are expecting severe conditions, you can use a pretty deep scope. Especially with 3/8" chain, though I know some guys use 5/16" for a 40 or 42 foot boat. More weight is better. You don't use bigger chain just for more strength, but also for more weight.

Sorry but I have to throw shade on all connectors that are supposed to ride in a windlass wildcat without a hiccup. You are probably going to give up some strength. Now I have probably gone and started another argument. Well, okay then. But I don't like connections between separate lengths of chain that have to pass flawlessly over a wildcat. You can, of course, stop heaving when you get to an oversized connector, heave that part with hook and rope led around the gypsy, then transfer the next bit of chain past the connector back to the wildcat and continue heaving. Usually that should work fine. Most of the time you will be anchoring with just the first 100' of chain, anyway. In fact, you will probably do this so seldom that as long as you have a pawl and you flip it down when you get to a connector, if it doesn't fit the wildcat perfectly, and it humplebumples over it and heaves but not smoothly, that's probably not a deal breaker, since you won't see that happening very often anyhow. Yeah I dislike the idea, but it can be done and plenty of guys do just that.

So that leaves combination rode. This is probably the most popular option. A hundred feet is enough to make significant catenary and put a nice nearly horizontal pull on the anchor under most yachting conditions. I dislike swivels as they are an obvious failure point. Use a chain splice, check it every time you pay out all your chain, and redo the splice as needed. If you are not going to use three strand, then whatever closed-up eye splice is recommended by the rope manufacturer. Eight-plait would be superior to double braid, as it weakens less when chafed. Myself, I do prefer three strand for anchor rode as well as for mooring lines because it has superior chafe resistance and shock loading strength. Yeah it can hockle up if you aren't careful. I guess that means you got to be careful. I grew up shrimping in the Gulf and all we ever used to anchor in water as deep as 40 fathoms was a big shrimpboat anchor, 3/4" chain stinger 10' to 20' long, and 100 fathoms of 1-1/2" dia three strand nylon. Same size chain and line with a small eye spliced in, for a chafing gear, actually what yachties call a snubber. To heave we led the line back aft to the trawl winch catheads. When I was the rig man I used both catheads figure eight style, to avoid twists. We did use a swivel and when an anchor was lost it was either due to chafe at the anchor chute, (davit, but it is called the chute on shrimp boats) because the chafing gear eye was too big and the anchor line pulled out, or the swivel broke. Anyway because dropping the anchor is sort of traumatic on the chain/nylon join, a chain splice is not used. Generally a thimble is spliced into the line and shackled into the chain. Anchor line was inspected regularly and bad parts were cut out and shortspliced. Too man splices and a new line was ordered, often spliced right on top of the old. Inshore boats often just fed the line into the forepeak and let it pile up. Offshore boats usually coiled it below or in good weather topside. Some steel boats had a cage forward of the house for faking the anchor line, where you could easily tie it down for bad weather. So combination rode works. A deep scope can work with the right anchor in less hostile conditions. Be sure and set it good. A short chain is far from ideal in that it doesn't provide much weight to hold the shank down, but at least it saves the end of the line from the worst of the bottom chafe.

I see there are concerns by some responders about the weight of another 100' of chain. I don't think it will be a dealbreaker, myself. Go to a vendor website and get the weight of the chain. Stack that much weight on the bow, and go sailing. You decide if more chain will even be noticed or not.

If you are a hardcore cruiser and might find yourself anchoring for a bad blow, you will want a new solid one piece chain, if you can afford it. It's really a no=brainer. If you are more of a fairweather sailor then if you need to economize I would go with combination rode. Cut any amount of the end of the chain that is badly rusted or worn, and swap ends. Splice 200- or 300' of new rope right into the chain. If you use double braid, which I don't recommend, sew through the splice so it doesn't loosen up when slack. It WON'T just pull out, if done properly, no worries about that, though. If anything, an eye in double braid has a tendency to close up smaller, rather than pull out, unless the splice is poorly done. With new rope you can make your tapers extra long for more holding power if you are noid about it, and/or go for a longer bury. For 8-plait or three strand, take extra tucks and taper them, and serve the splice well. It will hold, be sure of that, but you need to inspect the splice every time it comes back aboard, and repair if necessary or before it is necessary.

Your 25kg anchor to me sounds like meh, kind of close to the lighter end of what you could be using. You might want to get something bigger? Again, it sort of depends on your personal yachting style, needs, and budget. Just remember a couple hundred bucks for a better anchor vs the replacement cost for your boat is a pretty one sided equation. So, give it some thought, talk to other owners of your same model boat, and to guys with similar boats who sail the same areas and seasons as you do. Sometimes the conventional wisdom is personally relevant to you and your boat. Sometimes, not.

So I have a fairly heavily built 45' boat. Supposed to be 44' but that's the nature of Bruce Roberts boats. They mysteriously get just a leeeeeetle bit longer and broader than spec, when built. Anyway so I bought the boat it had about a 30lb no-name generic Danforth type anchor, 10' of 5/16" rusty chain, and 10 or 12 fathoms of stiff old nylon three strand, for ground tackle. No backup. LOL! The anchor showed definite signs of use, the galvanizing about half worn off. So, it was "good enough" for somebody, though no way in hell I would go to sea with only that for an anchor. Oops, well, actually I did, when I first bought her, but I had only two days to get her to her new home in New Orleans and catch a flight to a ship with the usual short time window for meeting the ship, so I couldn't miss the flight, and I had to move the boat or pay through the nose for storage. So I sailed with a highly doubtful anchor that some other guy had blissfully bet his boat on, time and time again. One of our first improvements was a borrowed anchor and combination rode, and one of our first purchases was a barrel of chain and a nice big Rocna. I could have gone way lighter, but I didn't. Mrs. Monster insisted, actually, on the heavy rig. I still have about 50' of chain on deck because the whole 400' doesn't fit in the locker. That's okay. I will put together a backup rode with it, soon. Already got the line.