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Old 05-08-2022, 09:21   #31
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

Is there a replacement gypsy available for your windlass that takes chain and rope?
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Old 05-08-2022, 09:36   #32
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

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Originally Posted by paulg222 View Post
The only thing is, I'm looking up references to Maxwell 1500 vertical windlass and I see it is saying it is designed as an all chain windlass (granted it does have a separate drum on top which is designed from rope or mixed, but it seems like the windlass gypsy is meant for chain only). Will a spliced rope actually cause a problem with getting through the gypsy on this kind of windlass?
If you actually put out more than 100 feet you start using the rope gypsy. Run some chain past the drum and use a chain hook or stopper to secure the chain while you feed the chain onto the wildcat. In most cases, you can make the switch by hand.

Previous owner most likely used a short chain because of limited capacity in the locker. New chain and SS slide off the pile. Old rough chain piles up to block the hawse pipe.

In the Caribbean we often use less than 100 feet.
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Old 05-08-2022, 10:02   #33
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

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Originally Posted by Benz View Post
First of all, you need a bigger anchor than 25 lb for a 42-foot boat.
Second, you rarely need as much as 5:1 scope. If you need more than 100 feet out, splicing to an octoplait or brait rope will be fine.
Your Catalina won't thank you for the weight of 100 extra feet of chain, even if it does fit, and you're gonna put the weight of a heavier anchor out there already.
I always use 7:1 scope on the ocean, and 10:1 if I'm expecting bad weather.

5:1 would be a lunch break only.
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Old 05-08-2022, 10:11   #34
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

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Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe View Post
Other options that may appeal:

Join two chains using a G4 or G7 chain link. Just change out that link every now and then.

Attach a piece of light line to the end of the chain attached to a strong point in the anchor locker. When all the chain is out the anchor will be on the bottom and that line lightly loaded. Attach whatever line you want to use with a soft shackle or whatever about two feet from the end of the chain. Put that rope on the drum, take up tension and release the light line from the end of the chain. Let out as much scope as you want. For retrieval, use the drum. When you get to the chain, stick the two-foot tail into the gypsy, ease and then detach the line and carry on retrieving. Transition takes seconds and you can use whatever line you already have.

That's not a bad idea.

Also putting a single removable link after 100' of chain isn't that big a deal to stop, fix the link, and continue raising anchor.

It would only be an issue if anchoring in deep water, and only a few seconds to reset chain on gypsy when it goes through.
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Old 05-08-2022, 11:15   #35
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

I have a "crosby" link that added 100' of chain. I do inspect it annually. So far, no issues after 5 years.
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Old 05-08-2022, 11:34   #36
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by capn_billl View Post
I always use 7:1 scope on the ocean, and 10:1 if I'm expecting bad weather.

5:1 would be a lunch break only.
Depends where you are. In the eastern Caribbean, winds constant East, we use 3:1 with our Rocna 54 kilo. Bottom is soft, sand or soft coral debris. Usually we are in 10 to 15 feet with good shelter. The boat swings hard in wind over 20 so we increase to 70-100 feet space permitting. The Caribbean anchorages can be difficult at 7-10 to one. An oversized modern anchor increases your options for lower scope.
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Old 05-08-2022, 13:11   #37
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

To answer your specific concerns:

Amount of chain

It depends on where you will be anchoring.

We found during our circumnavigating that 30 ft depths were common for anchoring, and 65ft was as common as 10ft. (often you need to move to deeper water to get clear of coral bommies). Even now, in Mexico, 25-35 ft is the norm. If there are rocks then all chain is preferred. At your 5:1 preference then you need 175'. We usually set with 125-150ft. There are times when more is needed due to conditions. We carry 275 ft of 5/16 G4 and have used it all several times.

But if you are normally going to be on sand or mud in less than 20 ft of water your 100ft could be OK, but it leaves you with nothing spare if the situation demands more scope unless you can use a chain to rope rode. In that case
DefinitelyMe's approach (below) is a good one but it seems dicey to me if deploying or recovering in heavy conditions. Be sure you have a reliable and strong chain hook and be careful so that you don't someday loose your anchor and chain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DefinitelyMe View Post
...Attach a piece of light line to the end of the chain attached to a strong point in the anchor locker. When all the chain is out the anchor will be on the bottom and that line lightly loaded. Attach whatever line you want to use with a soft shackle or whatever about two feet from the end of the chain. Put that rope on the drum, take up tension and release the light line from the end of the chain. Let out as much scope as you want. For retrieval, use the drum. When you get to the chain, stick the two-foot tail into the gypsy, ease and then detach the line and carry on retrieving. Transition takes seconds and you can use whatever line you already have.
Catalina 42 chain locker

My neighbor has a Cat42. They have cruised extensively in Caribbean, Central America, Mexico and California. They use over 200 feet of 5/16 G4 and they do have trouble with piling. It often needs a person below with a stick to knock the chain over. He told me he would not go with less chain despite that issue. 5/16 chain is less bulky than 3/8.

Windlass and gypsy

Your ground tackle and anchoring equipment is key for your safety. Pulling a bunch of chain and a 25kg anchor by hand is not fun, not fast, and can (and eventually will) cause back injury. If the conditions worsen where you are anchored it may be dangerous. We invested in a Lewmar windlass with power up and down and a rope to chain gypsy. We've used it for over 25 years and we are so glad to have it. I think it is essential. One of our back-up anchors is a Fortress with 30 feet of chain and 300 ft of 5/8 nylon. We've used it a few times when the main anchor and chain were not aboard (we remove those while racing). The windlass transitions from chain to rope perfectly and the gypsy pulls the rope in without a problem.

Weight in the bow

Your anchor is not excessively heavy. You could carry 200-250 feet of chain and if it was lighter chain, such as 5/16, the performance loss would probably be tolerable. The worst effect will hobby horsing while motoring to windward in choppy waves. Many cruisers complain that they are almost stopped in those conditions. We keep the bow light and we can happily sail or motor into chop.

Weight in the bow is one of the worst things you can do to a performance boat like a Cat42, but it is just one thing in the overall picture. If you are concerned with sailing performance you watch everything especially weight in the bow. It would be nice to be able to stow the chain aft but probably that is not practical on your Cat42. Our windlass is 10ft from the bow and we move the chain another 10 feet aft before passages.

Extreme conditions

There may come a time when you need to anchor and extreme conditions are expected or present. Your 25kg primary anchor may be a little light. We carry 44kg "storm" anchor and have deployed that a couple of times with 250ft of 5/16 G4 chain in 25 feet of water. We were glad to have the strength and weight of all chain. When the storm passed and we were raising that anchor we were glad to have the good windlass.
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Old 05-08-2022, 17:14   #38
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

In 8 years of cruising the Australian east coast, mostly in Great barrier reef waters, & 53,000 miles around the Pacific islands I used a 45Lb CQR 120Ft of 5/16 chain & 1.5" silver rope. Most anchorages were around 60Ft on sand or mud where it was safe to let rope down to the bottom, but at least 25% were coal or had coral bommies, unsafe for rope.


I would let out 10Ft less rope than the depth of water, so the rope stayed clear of obstructions.This meant in some anchorages I had just 170Ft of scope in 60Ft of water. In 8 years anchored every night, no marinas or commercial moorings in those areas then, the boat never dragged even once.


I also sat out 3 cyclones in open anchorages, sheltered from wave action, but in 80+ knots of wind. For these emergencies I carried 50 fathoms, 300Ft of 5/16" chain stored in the bilge just behind the mast step. I rode to the same 45Lb CQR, with 2, 30Ft silver rope springs to help avoid shock. I found these had to be wrapped in heavy carpet to avoid chafe at the bow roller, but other wise did their job.


I later ran a fleet of bear boats in the Whitsunday islands. These had a CQR & 5/16" chain suitable for the size of the boat.. Most anchorages were in 60Ft. I had 3 Ft of chain painted green at 190Ft giving 3 times the depth usually anchored at. In a number of years we had no charterer in trouble with dragging.


I also ran fishing charters to the outer Great Barrier reef in a 50Ft launch. On these we would be anchored, usually in about 80Ft of water, behind a reef 6Ft deep at low tide. It is quite remarkable how good the shelter is behind such a reef, even in 20 knot trade winds. In these anchorages I would use 4 times the depth all 3/8 chain, & out of site or radar range of any reference, I would lay a marker buoy, usually a 5 gallon jerry can on a reef pick 50 ft or so to windward of my anchor.


This buoy gave confidence you were not dragging, despite the rumble of chain over coral debris. My only really nervous night was one when the marker buoy dragged & came merrily bobbing past me & off out into the Pacific.
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Old 05-08-2022, 17:28   #39
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicholson58 View Post
Depends where you are. In the eastern Caribbean, winds constant East, we use 3:1 with our Rocna 54 kilo. Bottom is soft, sand or soft coral debris. Usually we are in 10 to 15 feet with good shelter. The boat swings hard in wind over 20 so we increase to 70-100 feet space permitting. The Caribbean anchorages can be difficult at 7-10 to one. An oversized modern anchor increases your options for lower scope.
I was going to post something similar.

I have spent 3 seasons in Eastern Caribbean and never used all my chain. The anchorages are too full if nothing else.

However we do have a huge anchor, 125# Mantus for a 40,000# boat.

Instead of carrying a lot of weight that only helps when deployed carry the same weight that helps every time it is deployed. And the anchor wonít rust out.

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Old 05-08-2022, 18:39   #40
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

Striking similarities! Our boat is 43 ft, and we have the Maxwell 1700 which I assume is just a slightly larger version. And we have a Rocna 25. And then the similarities end.

260 ft of 5/16 G4 chain and then another 40 ft of nylon for a round 300. We've routinely put out 100 to 150 feet, and haven't gone over 200 many times. As you were questioning, where to put that chain as a problem. If we let out more than 125 ft, we tend to have the anchor chain castle and jam. When we let out more than 125 ft, I stopped with a hundred feet out and go pull the chain out of the pile.

With that much chain and the incredible holding power of the Rocna you really don't need five to one. We have anchored in 75 ft with only 200 ft of chain out, and held well in moderate conditions. Not sure what I would have done in that anchorage if I needed more than 200 ft out, because there just wasn't enough swing room. But even in shallower water, we tend to be closer to four to one.

The weight of the chain does bother me. We dumped both anchors and all the chain on the dock this spring and the bow went up 4 in. Our boat is narrower than yours, so that weight has even more impact on us.

I am pretty sure that windless can take nylon as well. I second the recommendation for the octoplait, the stuff is really nice to handle. When we are done routinely anchoring in depths over 50 ft, I may well cut off 100 ft of my chain and substitute nylon.
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Old 05-08-2022, 22:04   #41
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

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Originally Posted by paulg222 View Post
Also would like to know from 42 owners if there is enough space under the windlass for 200' of chain to pile up, or if maybe this is why previous owner only had 100'.
Many have commented on other stuff, so Iíll address the OPís question about chain locker capacity.

For my cruising plans I need as much chain as possible yet there was no info about my yachtís chain-locker capacity. So I came up with a plan to compare the volume of chain with the volume of the chain locker. My method was to fill a 20L bucket with the short length of 8mm chain I had so I could figure out how many metres that the bucket would hold. I canít recall that number but for these sakes, call it 15m. My next step was measure the locker capacity. First I measured to 400mm below the windlass to allow for piling. Then I filled the locker with 20L buckets of water to the 400mm line, counting the number of buckets. Again, I canít remember the number but for these purposes say it was 9 buckets, or 180L. I arbitrarily took 80% of this number to allow for the chain occupying more than the water volume (despite having measured it in a bucket) giving a locker volume of 144L. So I have a locker of 144L and chain volume of 15m per 20L, giving a chain length of 108m. So Iíve gone ahead and installed 100m of chain and it seems to work well. I will still need to keep an eye on it piling though.

It would have been good if I had been able to accommodate 10mm chain. The next option for me was to go for 8mm G4/40 chain which has a significantly higher working and breaking load than L/BBB grade and with less volume than 10mm chain. There was a cost to this but to me not that considerable given the importance of reliable anchoring gear.

A last comment is on the weight of additional chain up foríd. If you decided on another 100ft (33m) of 8mm chain, the additional weight would be around 1.5kg/m or 50kg. Thatís the weight of a young teenager. Admittedly I do not know your yacht but have sailed and delivered many similar yachts and canít imagine that 50kg would be noticeable to her performance.

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Old 06-08-2022, 05:52   #42
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Re: Only 100' of chain, what to do?

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Originally Posted by Wideocean7 View Post
The next option for me was to go for 8mm G4/40 chain which has a significantly higher working and breaking load than L/BBB grade and with less volume than 10mm chain. There was a cost to this but to me not that considerable given the importance of reliable anchoring gear.

I just recently was doing some analysis for buying a small piece of chain, perhaps 50 ft. It was a static, shore-based location, and so weight did not matter. I discovered that price per breaking strength, there was little difference between BBB and G4. In fact, I think the G4 had the edge. I guess the manufacturing effort for the G4 is made up for by the reduced amount of iron.
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