Mooring Etiquette : Questions

[TheThunderbird]

I am keen to know your opinion about this.

Last summer I anchored in Vulcano (Sicily) just ahead of a western squall. The ground is rocky, and rapidly goes down from 25' to 50', and further on to 150' depth.
That which makes a good , safe anchoring quite a sensitive issue out there.

In a bay where i have seen a few tens of boats, in August, there were just two in early October, and l managed to anchor as far away as possible, to the very end of the bay, dropping in 25' water and paying 140' of chain.

My boat hives back&forth on hook, and i found the other boat to my port side, at a distance varying from 40' to 100+' beam to beam (as both boats moved under guts of wind, not in synchrony).

I remained on cockpit, checking at length.
I could not do any better dropping.
Paying more chain could just get me closer
Paying any less could place me on the nose of that boat astern, a situation which i dont like, and respectfully avoid (and would contend, if anyone went on my bow).

We had fenders out, and got ready to consider a kedge on starboard side, though i disagree with double anchoring in general, in order to stay apart.

The couple on the other boat (US flag) got anxious, and addressed me politely, but repeatedly, eventually asking me to move out.

I replied that we were both hanging on hook, somewhat in parallel, as it usually happens (that which is of little issue even in crowdy bays, unless you give out too much chain vs others).
I also admitted that i could not drop my anchor any better elsewhere , and that we remained on watch.

He replied to have anchored first!! Well, it gives him the prime choice, but no further authority nor right of exclusivity imo.
I didn't reply to what looked like quite an odd remark.

The guy may have grown disappointed, as he soon after took off and moved 250' away, right during the squall, which made me feel sorrow, but not guilty...

In half an hour, another boat had anchored in his very place, putting herself again beam to beam against me, and the US boat too!

My son (20) cried me hypocritical, pointing out that i would have been equally contentious in his place.
I don't think so, tolerance and alertness come together when boating...

Yet, l remain with a question: is there anything about mooring etiquette that i am missing?

Thanks

PS there is a joke here in the Med, i put it short:

USS ENTERPRISE "We are the Commander in Chief of the US Navy, and we order you ( little boat) to move apart. NOW!
Answer: "We got it, Sirs. This is the Lighthouse of Trieste"

[Pelagic]

It is not a question of etiquette but one of Safety.
Etiquette pertains to things like playing loud music which disturbs your neighbour.
You explained that you were maintaining an anchor watch and you were comfortable that the distance would not get any closer.

You addressed the issue of safety from your perspective.

It appears that your neighbour disagreed and made a decision to move... which is his prerogative.

If you had any doubt that you had tested to the extreme of your swing radius..... then your perspective was selfish.

[Dockhead]

This is a classical situation in crowded anchorages. Unfortunately. I don't think there's any good solution to it -- some people will really anchor too close, often because they don't understand very well how their boat will lie in relation to where the anchor goes down. Or because there's not enough space in the anchorage. And some people get irate, because they think someone is anchoring too close, even when it's not so. So this is a common source of conflict.

The black and white of the matter is that whoever anchors later, has a responsibility to anchor in a way which will not create an unreasonable risk of collision. If after anchoring second, it seems that the boats are swinging in a way which creates such a risk, then you need to move.

Unfortunately it is very hard to judge that risk, and some people have silly ideas about it. In fact, it's very rare for boats to swing into each other, as they generally swing in a similar manner, even if the boats are of different sizes. And especially if the scope is similar. I've never witnessed two boats swinging into each other, in fact. So I think most of the nerves and anguish over this is unnecessary.

Nevertheless, I will move, as a rule, if someone who anchored earlier, is upset about where I anchored and can't be gently persuaded. As a rule, because ending up in some kind of bad feelings while cruising just defeats the whole purpose of cruising.

Here's the story of one case, where it was simply impossible to move, and what I did about it:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ain-86277.html


Nowadays I'm cruising the Baltic during the summers, and I never have this problem. Because there are literally millions of places to anchor, and I almost never share an anchorage with even one other boat. I've almost forgotten what crowded anchorages are like!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

. . .
You explained that you were maintaining an anchor watch and you were comfortable that the distance would not get any closer.

You addressed the issue of safety from your perspective.

It appears that your neighbour disagreed and made a decision to move... which is his prerogative.

If you had any doubt that you had tested to the extreme of your swing radius..... then your perspective was selfish.

I think this is a correct analysis of the right and wrong of the situation.

If you anchor later, you are responsible for not swinging into the other boat. If you are not entirely confident, that you will not swing into the other boat, then you need to move.

If you are confident, but the other skipper is not, then you have a problem. You can solve it as you did and stick to your guns. But that is not what I would have done.

[kmacdonald]

Sounds like you anchored right on top of him. You should have moved. Even your son thought so. Was your boat bigger than the other boat?

[El Pinguino]

Swinging to 'within 40 feet ' is not 'right on top of'. You really should try and get out more.

If the OP had moved the next boat to anchor ( as mentioned by OP ) would have taken his spot, and if they had moved, then the next boat would have taken the spot... and so on until the complainer had a brain implosion.

[sartorst]

If there was room 250' away why did you not anchor there ? You win thats what maters

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Swinging to 'within 40 feet ' is not 'right on top of'. You really should try and get out more.

If the OP had moved the next boat to anchor ( as mentioned by OP ) would have taken his spot, and if they had moved, then the next boat would have taken the spot... and so on until the complainer had a brain implosion.

Wot ^^^He^^^ sed..

[TheThunderbird]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Sounds like you anchored right on top of him. You should have moved. Even your son thought so. Was your boat bigger than the other boat?

Yes, my boat is bigger
There was no quarrel.

Obviously i got 'bad feelings' for his over-reaction, as he judged the situation more dangerous than i did.
Infact, another boat soon after deliberately placed itself in that very position.

Needless to say, any perspective is subjective. Unfortunately, peace of mind is a rare commodity at seas. Upon an impending squall i had no will to potter around venturing to nowhere.

The safety issue meshes with etiquette, when you happen to hurt someone's perspective.
In my opinion/experience, that was a pretty likely situation, to watch without apprehension.

No, I didn't anchor onto him, but maybe he felt so.

I thought he could easily pay out some more chain.. but it is not my way to enter into any recommendations mood

[TheThunderbird]

Originally Posted by sartorst

If there was room 250' away why did you not anchor there ? You win thats what maters

That was to the breakwaters of Porto di Levante, under a rocky cliff...on the left hand side of bay
I anchored on the far right side, right down a buoy line.


If any rule applies, it is of not placing on top of anyone's bow, for safety and respect.

All swinging boats may happen to be abeam, which is actually quite safe a position

[Wanderlust]

Originally Posted by TheThunderbird

In a bay where i have seen a few tens of boats, in August, there were just two in early October, and l managed to anchor as far away as possible .....

My boat hives back&forth on hook, ........ not in synchrony).

So you were swinging less than a boat length away from the other boat, and the wind was due to pick up further. There was room for many boats (albeit with more difficult anchoring) and the other boat did just that eventually.

You may have been OK to stand watch, and thought it justifiable to do so, but is it reasonable to expect the other skipper to do the same?

I too would have been apprehensive that you were too close, and would have expected you to have given a little more room.

[ErikFinn]

imho opinion 40 feet is not enough separation, that's less than your boat's length, I can understand why the other skipper got anxious. Bit problematic situation though if you felt you could not re-drop and the other guy could not see your reasons.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Wot ^^^He^^^ sed..

OK, not on top of but within pissing distance. 40' is too close and if a boat anchored that close to me they would have to move or be moved.
You also felt the need to stand watch so you weren't comfortable with the situation.

[aclmck]

Common sense, boat etiquette, safety, if you anchor too close in your opinion you should move if in your opinion your ok and the neighbours think your not you need to communicate or you will piss him off, ultimate decision is yours no-one else, you made a call that you thought was right and it proved so, move on and forget it , i have had people not wanting us in the same bay even so you get all types if 40ft was the closest swing then i would think that to be Ok in a crowded anchorage.is it possible he had a differing weather report and thought it too close if the winds were to pickup ?

[barnakiel]

There is no more etiquette in this world, neither anchoring nor otherwise.

The meekest poofter moves ...

Just too many boats in many places. Etiquette is a court thing: hello Sir, what a nice day, etc. Forget it. Passe.

Real world thing is you drop your hook where you can and you try not to scratch the neighbour. And do not leave your boat unattended for long periods of time - most of the trouble I have seen were boats anchored and owners ashore having the fun of their lives.

b.