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Old 01-11-2016, 07:12   #16
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

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Originally Posted by kmacdonald View Post
. . . if a boat anchored that close to me they would have to move or be moved.
What does that mean?
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:18   #17
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

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OK, not on top of but within pissing distance. 40' is too close and if a boat anchored that close to me they would have to move or be moved.
You also felt the need to stand watch so you weren't comfortable with the situation.
How do you move someone that won't move short of cutting his anchor line ???
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Old 01-11-2016, 07:47   #18
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

It is my understanding of the Colregs (and I’m not a lawyer) that under the “General / Responsibility” section it states:

(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case

This could mean that if you are safely anchored and some clown anchors next to you in a manner that you consider unsafe, your act of notifying him / her indicates that you recognize the unsafe situation exists and your subsequent failure to act makes you liable in whole or in part for any collision and damages. You could be dealing with someone who doesn't speak English (yes, even if they are US flagged!!), is a total incompetent, or stoned out of their mind. Your choice is either don't warn them and find out if they have insurance, or move.
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:12   #19
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pirate Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmacdonald View Post
OK, not on top of but within pissing distance. 40' is too close and if a boat anchored that close to me they would have to move or be moved.
You also felt the need to stand watch so you weren't comfortable with the situation.
I believe he said that 40ft was the closest they got on opposite swings.. not that they were laying 40ft apart.. if your familiar with anchoring you'll know that gives you a pretty safe radius.
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:12   #20
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

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Originally Posted by edmundsteele View Post
It is my understanding of the Colregs (and I’m not a lawyer) that under the “General / Responsibility” section it states:

(a) Nothing in these Rules shall exonerate any vessel, or the owner, master or crew thereof, from the consequences of any neglect to comply with these Rules or of the neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case

This could mean that if you are safely anchored and some clown anchors next to you in a manner that you consider unsafe, your act of notifying him / her indicates that you recognize the unsafe situation exists and your subsequent failure to act makes you liable in whole or in part for any collision and damages. You could be dealing with someone who doesn't speak English (yes, even if they are US flagged!!), is a total incompetent, or stoned out of their mind. Your choice is either don't warn them and find out if they have insurance, or move.
Ed
I am a lawyer, and I can confirm that your analysis is absolutely correct.

This is not only the law, it is also the ethos of seafaring -- we don't stand on "rights" -- which the COLREGS don't grant in any way, shape or form. We do whatever is necessary to keep safe.

This ethos is embodied in Rule 2 -- exactly in the part you cited. It exactly means that you don't get privileges, just because another vessel is under an obligation. You don't ever have the right to sit back and expect someone else to deal with a risk.
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Old 01-11-2016, 08:13   #21
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

Thunderbird as you stated, the calculation of risk and safety is subjective, all the more to us readers because we were not there and cannot see with our own eyes the exact specific situation and conditions.

40', squarely beam to beam, with an approaching squall, strikes me as risky on the face of things. But that was the closest distance, and I assume if the furthest extent was 100' that you only reach the minimum on those occasions when you were both swinging out of synch. But without the benefit of seeing exactly how much each of you were swinging, the sea state, etc. I'm loathe to offer a firm opinion on your particular maneuver other than I would have erred significantly on the side of caution given the facts as you offer them. I will say that your decision to remain on watch points to the situation as being fundamentally risky.

From an etiquette perspective, I think Pelagic distilled it down pretty concisely. We weren't there, so any opinions offered with respect to you being in the wrong or in the right should be taken with a grain of salt.
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:35   #22
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

Let's see. A larger boat comes in ahead of a squall, drops barely 5:1 scope, comes within 40' of another boat, and refuses to move even though it's possible and the owner is uncomfortable enough to stay up.

I say that is poor etiquette.
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:47   #23
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

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... I've never witnessed two boats swinging into each other, in fact. So I think most of the nerves and anguish over this is unnecessary.

I've been bumped before. The other boat came later, after we were in bed, and were to damn close. I woke and put fenders out, which worked.

IMHO, if you can't find safe room, you don't get to anchor.

The most common cause is not that the harbor is crowded, but that sailors have a poor visual perception of where to drop the hook so that they stop where they want. They end up too close and wonder how it happened.
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:55   #24
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

I believe you to be totally incorrect:
The first boat sets the precedent

Anchoring etiquette dictates that the use of an anchorage is on a first come, first served basis. Boats coming later have to respect the space needs and swing radii as well as other attributes of those already anchored. This includes, but is not limited to the obvious considerations: type of boat, method of anchoring, selection of location and behavior of the boaters. Of course, if you are the fiftieth boat in the anchorage, it’s pretty hard to tell who got there first. You can spend the whole night going from boat to boat asking, “Who was the first boat here?” or you can treat all those who were there before you as setting the precedent.

Once a captain anchors his boat he has complete domain over his swing room of 360 degrees.That is why you need to get in early.
In my years of sailing in crowded areas
I've witnessed some violent results to dismissing this RULE.
Learn the correct rules and etiquette and it may serve you in the future.
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Old 01-11-2016, 09:59   #25
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

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Let's see. A larger boat comes in ahead of a squall, drops barely 5:1 scope, comes within 40' of another boat, and refuses to move even though it's possible and the owner is uncomfortable enough to stay up.

I say that is poor etiquette.
Agree 100%.
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Old 01-11-2016, 10:07   #26
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

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Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
I believe he said that 40ft was the closest they got on opposite swings.. not that they were laying 40ft apart.. if your familiar with anchoring you'll know that gives you a pretty safe radius.

Some here just aren't familiar with such things....
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Old 01-11-2016, 10:16   #27
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
[snip]
I will say that your decision to remain on watch points to the situation as being fundamentally risky.

[snip]
Had I been in the situation myself (in anchoring to avoid weather) I would have remained on watch regardless if another boat was around or not.. Not because I was nervous about hitting someone else, but rather to make sure my anchorage did not slip or move..

It totally seems reasonable to me if I felt the situation would not lead to me bumping a boat, and yet the other boat captain did, it would be his/her responsibility to rectify the situation (most likely) by moving..

One thing I do not see how it plays any part is the size of the two boats..

respectfully flk k
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Old 01-11-2016, 10:25   #28
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

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I am keen to know your opinion about this.Last summer I anchored in Vulcano (Sicily) just ahead of a western squall. The ground is rocky, and rapidly goes down from 25' to 50', and further on to 150' depth... Yet, l remain with a question: is there anything about mooring etiquette that i am missing ? Thanks
Beware of charter (sail)boats ! Often their crew know little about proper anchoring techniques. I remember, once in US Virgin Islands around Xmas, the trade winds strengthened during the night & a charter sailboat, anchored to our windward dragged its anchor & came banging on us in the middle of the night. As I jump on deck, the landlubbers on the charter sailboat started shouting that "we" dragged on them... I explained that since we were downwind from them it was most likely them who had dragged on us ! Shortly after all their piña colada & other rum based drinks in their blood & brain had evaporated, they started their engine & moved away... Luckily, we had a British strongly built C&N that showed no sign of the night event Cheers !
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Old 01-11-2016, 10:30   #29
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

I would expect it is not my responsibility to make another captain feel comfortable.. It is the responsibility of we all to make sure we are safe, and if we don't feel safe to get to a situation where we do feel safe (or at least safer)..

Moving into protected waters to avoid weather, was an act to increase the margin of safety.. I do not think I should be expected to move because someone else feels I am too close - and remember, the other guy just "thought" he was too close..

Do I have an expectation for all of the other boats moored at my marina to be moved so they don't hit my boat if a hurricane hits the marina?? Especially the one moored next to me in a double berth dock?? flk k
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Old 01-11-2016, 10:47   #30
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Re: Mooring Etiquette : Questions

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One thing I do not see how it plays any part is the size of the two boats..

respectfully flk k

Sometimes it helps to think in extremes, then work toward middle ground.

Would you be more concerned with a 3000lb 22' boat on 130' scope or a 30,000lb 54' boat on 130' scope? Which has a larger swing area? Which is more likely to drag? Which is more likely to do damage if it hits you? Which is going to be harder to fend off?
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