Dragging my Rocna - Is my technique at fault?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by JimmyDarci

I'm curious what the issue is with power dropping the anchor? (End quote)

IMHO.- power windlass drop is great - when it sets correctly. My issue AGAINST using the power to drop the anchor and set it is that when you manually keep a hand or two on the line while paying out scope, you can literally feel when it drags or something goes awry. For that reason, I do use power windlass to raise and sometime even to pay out a bit more scope but not to lower. If too heavy, You could always use the power to set the anchor on the bottom and then pay out the line by hand. “Jedi” powers they are not, but this is akin to a sight impaired person maximizing the other senses while in the dark. A poorly setting anchor will send small tremors or even a larger jerking sensation back up the rode/chain.

I make a point never to pull on it until after I've stopped dropping, so I can see / hear / feel (if I put a hand on the rode) what it's doing as I bring up tension. The dropping portion is done with the rode slack (but boat moving so it doesn't drop in a pile), so there's nothing to feel while it's powering down.

[Sun and Moon]

I think the soft mud was the issue. I have a Manson, and I've dragged in both the places you mention. I used to drop the anchor, then back down immediately, but more recently I've been trying to let the anchor to settle for 10-30 mins before backing down, and it seems to work better.

[Night_Sailor]

My rule of thumb is is your boat is 38', you want the next higher size anchor in kg. So a 45kg.




But in soft mud, I'd prefer a Bruce anchor, or a big Fortress.

[ForGrinsToo]

Everybody drags, especially when wind or current shifts. Most just don't know it. That's because a good anchor re-sets (bottom permitting).

There can be an issue with piling chain on top of the anchor, and maybe resting a bit before backing down on it allows the anchor and chain to sort out some as the boat slowly moves downwind/with current.

I wouldn't anchor overnight with less than 7:1 unless I had an all-chain rode. If conditions (including neighbors) won't allow that, I will either go elsewhere or set a second anchor, or take a line ashore (if that is possible).

[Floridajohnb]

I always anchor with 7:1 scope taking into account the depth at high tide plus the distance from the anchor roller to the water (4'). Start by stalling into the wind letting out all the scope, snubbing up the chain while letting the wind/current tighten up the slack. Then I reverse at 1K rpm untill it's clear the anchor has caught increasing the RPM to 1.5K rpm. If the anchor drags, I pull everything up and repeat.

[mickand]

I have a 45lb Rocna on my 36000lb trawler.
I lay out chain as I reverse at 1-2kts and go to neutral when I reach my calculated scope.
I single hand so quickly walk forward to hopefully watch the chain tighten as the anchor bites.
Wait for a couple of minutes to let everything settle then back down to check.
Never fails.

[zboss]

I know all those anchorages in your post very well. The Daytona anchorage is very soft "pluff" mud (due to a treated sewage discharge) and its not uncommon not to get a good hold; the Fernandina anchorage is similar also with pluff. Your best bet is to pay out 5:1 and letting it settle while you drink two beers . Then back down using a lower RPM for a longer period. This goes for any anchor. It is true that you will get better holding in pluff using a danforth type anchor but I have been carrying around a Fortress for 8 years and maybe have had to use it three times.

Pluff mud is common in places near older industrial sites, like paper and steel mills in Georgia and other eastern states. It's also common in the Chesapeake Bay but mostly because of the large amount surrounding foliage around creeks.

FYI - we rarely use higher than 5:1 - especially if I am "on the go" but we will use 7:1 if we plan on a long stay or if we think it will give us a more comfortable motion on the boat at anchor. The shorter the scope, the sharper the pitching of the boat at anchor when the waves pick up.

[Sailing Ohm]

Likely technique is missing something, I see no mention of you using a snubber/bridle to absorb the shock loads due to snatch loading from waves and yawing. You mention you snub the chain until it’s bar tight but I’m not sure if this means your using a snubber/bridle or just belaying the chain.

Add an appropriate sized and length snubber and you’ll might not have the issue again. You should never use all chain rode without an appropriately sized snubber or bridle. Without a snubber every little jerk of the boat causes the anchor to wiggle and eventually break loose.

If you are using an appropriate sized snubber you are likely choosing an inappropriate place to drop the hook. Soft mud can be tricky but not impossible with a quality set up.

Im amazed at reading the replies here that almost no one mentions a snubber/bridle. This is a major fault and at the very least will destroy your windlass.

5:1 scope is ok with all chain although 5/16th chain is a little lighter than the traditional 3/8 chain recommended for your size boat. Same breaking strength since it’s G43 but weight is key here.

With my 55lb mantus and 3/8 BBB chain at 5:1 scope it takes more than 15mph wind and 3-4kn current to have the boat pull against the anchor. Less than that just the weight of the chain holds me in place.
I personally never “power set” my anchor as I’ve seen plenty of people do that and actually pull their anchors loose. With a good anchor the wind and current will set you just fine. (If there is neither then a little motor will be useful) It’s also pretty destructive to the sea bed also. I’m always amazed at people backing down on their anchor for hundreds of yards before it catches.. this is just unnecessary.
I dive frequently and you usually can tell the people who “power set” their anchors and many times they are barely in the bottom especially with “plow type”
Anchors that just create nice long plowed furrows.

25Kg anchor is a perfect size for you, definitely NOT a hurricane anchor by any means as some have suggested but an ok storm anchor.

[MVDarlin]

I would let out chain while backing down to 5:1. Then neutral while you tighten the windless to 75% tight. Then back down until chain is taught. Neutral and tighten windless to 100%.

[MVDarlin]

A bridal will make for a better sleep, especially in the fwd berth.

[Sailing Ohm]

[QUOTE=Night_Sailor;3421771]My rule of thumb is is your boat is 38', you want the next higher size anchor in kg. So a 45kg.

45kg is way overkill for a 30-40ft boat. I think you mean lbs... a 100lb anchor is bordering on a hurricane anchor not a daily

[lo2jones]

You may be snagging it too early. 2/3 of the scope is the first time you want the anchor to bite. The first time you hold it is just to make sure it’s laying out and not in a pile on the bottom. I teach a similar called Anchor Management and have a power point for it...
First 1/3 check to make sure the anchor is on the bottom and stretching out a little
Second 1/3 (2/3) let the anchor pull the bow, some, but not hard.
Third 1/3 (3/3) let it set hard and make sure the windlass drum brake is tight.

[sv_pelagia]

I didn't get much sleep with my bridal... not until later when we started using a bridle.

Now, after 25 years of marriage, neither are needed for us both to sleep well. [emoji6]

https://www.vocabulary.com/articles/...bridal-bridle/

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I'm curious what the issue is with power dropping the anchor? I could see a problem with a very slow windlass on a windy day, but mine will drop somewhere around 100 feet / minute while powering down, especially while it's got the weight of the anchor and chain pulling on it before the anchor hits the bottom. With the boat moving slowly or being blown by the wind, I've never had a situation where the rode has gone tight due to the windlass dropping too slowly.



Generally I signal back to the helm to adjust boat movement as needed if it's either too fast or too slow relative to the speed of the rode paying out. I drop and raise the anchor standing on the bow with the remote and give hand signals to the helm for boat movement.

Good to see it’s you up at the bow

The issue is that there is no such thing as power dropping the anchor. When you use the down button of the windlass, you lower it, or you pay out more chain. The speed at which you pay out chain is dictated by the motor, not by the speed of the boat moving aft so you are either too fast or too slow paying out chain. Last but not least, you can not increase friction like the clutch allows, which not just stretches the chain, but then give more chain as it becomes tight instead of jerking it. In good sand or clay these things may not matter as much, but in more challenging conditions they make all the difference.

Why does a windlass have a clutch?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Good to see it’s you up at the bow

The issue is that there is no such thing as power dropping the anchor. When you use the down button of the windlass, you lower it, or you pay out more chain. The speed at which you pay out chain is dictated by the motor, not by the speed of the boat moving aft so you are either too fast or too slow paying out chain. Last but not least, you can not increase friction like the clutch allows, which not just stretches the chain, but then give more chain as it becomes tight instead of jerking it. In good sand or clay these things may not matter as much, but in more challenging conditions they make all the difference.

Why does a windlass have a clutch?

Thinking about it, being a twin engine powerboat, I probably have an easier time than most sailors would with controlling boat speed while dropping the anchor. So rather than using the clutch (which wouldn't feed fast when I get to the rope portion of my rode), it's easier to just control boat speed to match how fast the windlass can spew out chain. The rode is always slack from when I start dropping until I snub it to take the load off the windlass before applying tension. As far as tension goes, I always use the boat to bring up tension gently, rather than letting it come on hard. Only once there's some tension on the rode will I just leave the engines in reverse for a power set.

For me, the windlass clutch is rarely adjusted, but is almost always kept set such that it'll slip before the windlass motor stalls to avoid hurting anything when pulling the anchor into the roller or if I pull on it a bit while putting on a snubber to break the anchor out of the bottom (no chain stopper in my setup).