Dragging my Rocna - Is my technique at fault?

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by MVDarlin

I would let out chain while backing down to 5:1. Then neutral while you tighten the windless to 75% tight. Then back down until chain is taught. Neutral and tighten windless to 100%.

My windlass is rather simple and afaik does not have this sort of adjustment.

[searenity38]

- double check your overall scope factor. Your ratio should be based on the total sum of water depth + height of anchor pulpit over water + tidal range.
- lower your anchor and start backing away (not backing down) until you've let out at least 3:1 scope before you start backing down lightly. This is to simply pull all the slack chain laying on the sea floor. Then go to 4:1 to set the anchor firmly. At 5:1 back down hard. From there you can roll back gently to 4:1 if that is what you like. Personally I use 5:1 for lunch 7:1 over night. And that's all chain.

[flightlead404]

Originally Posted by searenity38

- double check your overall scope factor. Your ratio should be based on the total sum of water depth + height of anchor pulpit over water + tidal range.

yes yes I have this. depth on the depth gauge measures water under the keel, add 10 for the keel and distance to the bow roller, then do the multiplier.

I'm considering switching to 50' + 2*(depth under keel + 10)

[Pacifico]

A lot of good info. I have about same size boat and and anchor manufacturer and anchor size so will through in my 2 cents. 2:1 isnt enouhh to set. Try 3 or 4:1 then let wind or current take you back to initial set point. Take your time, let the anchor do is job and dig in. Once stuck give it a little reverse. Then pay out to 4 or 5:1 allowing for fall from roller to water, keel offset and tide plus the depth. Now start to power pack slowly and then increase modestly. Stop and wait again to see that your set.
I dont use more than 4 or 5:1 unless in big wind and fetch. Hobby-horsing is more likely to cause pullout than wind. I've stayed put all night in 45-50 knots with no fetch-flat seas. Several days in less wind but more fetch- larger swell. I dont use more than the anchorage will allow due to close proximity of boats unless you want to meet your neighbors.
Roll bars will catch mud, always clean it between use, drag it or whatever it takes.

[robertmfranklin]

Snubber.

Am I being too primitive in my approach when something sexier like an anchor hook might be both more complicated, more expensive and more prone to failure.

Once again I am seeking criticism.

My 5/8 three strand nylon anchor rode is attached to the chain by directly without a thimble or shackle. I just made this change this year because i got tired of hauling my anchor and dealing with the shackle and thimble. I also was considering a windlass which would require the direct rope to chain connection, but have abandoned the windlass idea.

This brings me to consider attaching a snubber by setting the anchor, then attaching a snubber rope directly to a link that remains accessible on the bow and then dropping another 8 feet or so, over the bow roller after securing the other end of the snubber to my second cleat.

It does not have pictorial appeal, but seems to be a much simpler and more reliable way to go.

The anchor can be retrieved up to the point of attachment, the rope removed and the rest of the chain hauled in.

Where I will have 10 to 20 feet of rope rode from my anchor cleat leading over the bow roller to the submerged chain, I wonder why I will need a snubber at all?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by robertmfranklin

Snubber.

Am I being too primitive in my approach when something sexier like an anchor hook might be both more complicated, more expensive and more prone to failure.

Once again I am seeking criticism.

My 5/8 three strand nylon anchor rode is attached to the chain by directly without a thimble or shackle. I just made this change this year because i got tired of hauling my anchor and dealing with the shackle and thimble. I also was considering a windlass which would require the direct rope to chain connection, but have abandoned the windlass idea.

This brings me to consider attaching a snubber by setting the anchor, then attaching a snubber rope directly to a link that remains accessible on the bow and then dropping another 8 feet or so, over the bow roller after securing the other end of the snubber to my second cleat.

It does not have pictorial appeal, but seems to be a much simpler and more reliable way to go.

The anchor can be retrieved up to the point of attachment, the rope removed and the rest of the chain hauled in.

Where I will have 10 to 20 feet of rope rode from my anchor cleat leading over the bow roller to the submerged chain, I wonder why I will need a snubber at all?

I also just hitch the snubber right to the chain.

[wildcat35]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

So I replaced the toy delta on my Hunter 38' with a 25kg Rocna original on 200' 5/16" G43. Should be sized correctly for my boat.

I've anchored out four or five nights and drug two of the five. Admittedly the dragging was in soft mud, but possibly my technique is also at fault.

FWIW I drug in the river by R42 (R44?) Veterans Memorial Bridge, Daytona, and at Sheepshead Cut just south of Fernandina. Both times in 15kts with 5:1 scope out. Sheepshead Cut I would never have anchored, very large fetch, wind opposing current, > 6' tidal range, right in the mouth of a creek, soft mud....ugly but was with another boat. I bailed after two attempts and picked up a mooring at Fernandina.

Successful anchoring in Lake Syliva, and by Merritt Island Causeway.

Onto my technique:
1. Bring boat to a stop at chosen point, aligned with other vessels at anchor nearby if any, otherwise into wind
2. Lower anchor until its resting on the bottom
3. If the wind/current is pushing the boat down wind/current then pay out the anchor chain to keep it just vertical until 2:1 (this from Rocna pamplet), otherwise engage in reverse idle to do the same thing
4. Snub the chain, look for the chain to be "bar straight" and not doing a "snatch and relax" or any vibration in the chain indicating skipping
5. Continuing the motion in step 3, go to 5:1
6. Back down on the anchor starting around 1,000 rpm, increasing to 1,600-1,800 rpm for a minute while checking bearings to nearby land-based points

Am I doing something wrong, or just unlucky with bottoms?

sandy bottoms can be a challenge at best danforth anchors work best in sand. I have good luck with CQR anchors but also sandy bottoms can be problematic with the CQR I like to mark my holding areas and keep them in my gps after a while if you travel the same routes this method comes in handy.
Good luck and safe travels.

[sailorboy1]

Amazing the dribble an anchoring thread can produce

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Amazing the dribble an anchoring thread can produce

..did you mean drivel....

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Amazing the dribble an anchoring thread can produce

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

..did you mean drivel....

Both are apt

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Amazing the dribble an anchoring thread can produce

Say, are you related to the SB1 who is always complaining about irrelevant, uninformative and distracting posts in "his" threads?

Just wondering...

Jim

[C420sailor]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Amazing the dribble an anchoring thread can produce

Meanwhile I’m over here with my Bruce like “this is fine...” haha

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by flightlead404

So I replaced the toy delta on my Hunter 38' with a 25kg Rocna original on 200' 5/16" G43. Should be sized correctly for my boat.

I've anchored out four or five nights and drug two of the five. Admittedly the dragging was in soft mud, but possibly my technique is also at fault.

FWIW I drug in the river by R42 (R44?) Veterans Memorial Bridge, Daytona, and at Sheepshead Cut just south of Fernandina. Both times in 15kts with 5:1 scope out. Sheepshead Cut I would never have anchored, very large fetch, wind opposing current, > 6' tidal range, right in the mouth of a creek, soft mud....ugly but was with another boat. I bailed after two attempts and picked up a mooring at Fernandina.

Successful anchoring in Lake Syliva, and by Merritt Island Causeway.

Onto my technique:
1. Bring boat to a stop at chosen point, aligned with other vessels at anchor nearby if any, otherwise into wind
2. Lower anchor until its resting on the bottom
3. If the wind/current is pushing the boat down wind/current then pay out the anchor chain to keep it just vertical until 2:1 (this from Rocna pamplet), otherwise engage in reverse idle to do the same thing
4. Snub the chain, look for the chain to be "bar straight" and not doing a "snatch and relax" or any vibration in the chain indicating skipping
5. Continuing the motion in step 3, go to 5:1
6. Back down on the anchor starting around 1,000 rpm, increasing to 1,600-1,800 rpm for a minute while checking bearings to nearby land-based points

Am I doing something wrong, or just unlucky with bottoms?

In my experience anchoring in soft muddy bottoms can be a challenge. However if the anchor drags in 15kn of wind means your anchor never dug in .
5:1 should be more then enough.
Shovel type anchors also tend to jam up with soil and a the roll cage doesnt help, i have found that I had to clean the fluke before resetting the shovel type anchor helps.
In the end I got a Sarca Excel #5 which in my opinion are better even on a reset.
I usually use a scope of 4 to1 and if it gets really blowy maybe 6 to1..never did drag the Sarca..
As I said soft mud is just that, soft and therefore provides diminished holding power.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Say, are you related to the SB1 who is always complaining about irrelevant, uninformative and distracting posts in "his" threads?

Just wondering...

Jim

You think this the same thing on this thread? This thread has 4 pages of the same "answer" mixed in with dribble/drivel.

thanks for for some more dribble/drivel, of course I understand your goal

[sailoray531]

Do you measure depth from depth sounder or from bow roller? You should do the latter when deciding on scope. If you have 5:1 scope in 15 feet of water, your 75 feet amounts to less than 4:1 if your bow roller is 5 feet above the water.