Chain upgrade

[arsenelupiga]

I purchased new 60 m chain as old one was rusty but still fully functional. So now i have 2 x 60 m chain. And dont just want to throw old away. This is what I plan to do and thought to check with CF just in case i missed something.

Will join 2 chains using 2mm dyneema with 6 loops to get more strength than chain. And goes nicely thru anchor winch.

When I do not use more than 60-70 m of chain, link will not get exposed and no extra action.
If i need to anchor in deep, say 30m and need 120 m of chain out to get 4:1, will

1.winch out 60 m chain
2. use stopper on chain so link gets loose
3. attach 2 x 12mm shackles one on each side and secure link with shackles as well
4. Let the remaining chain go out.

Dyneema will take the load but in case of cutting on coral, 2 shackles will take over.

When retrieving, will pull in, again secure chain to be lose around link and remove shackles. Then winch the remainder in.


Only issue I see in bad weather retrieving anchor may get tricky but should still be able to loosen chain to remove 2 shackles via second chain roller.

And I now have beautiful clean non rusted deck

Comments please?

[Jim Cate]

This sounds like a lot of fussing around to solve a non-problem. Why not use the proper joining link between the two lengths? They are a well proven item, and have served many of us well for years. They run through the gypsy just like the chain itself does. If you are worried about their failing, you can add the dyneema lashings around them as Evans Starzinger has done in the past.

Jim

[arsenelupiga]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

This sounds like a lot of fussing around to solve a non-problem. Why not use the proper joining link between the two lengths? They are a well proven item, and have served many of us well for years. They run through the gypsy just like the chain itself does. If you are worried about their failing, you can add the dyneema lashings around them as Evans Starzinger has done in the past.

Jim

i have read on CF that chain links are not safe solution. Do you recommend any particular one ? I want definitely dyneema as plan B. Will go soon to Vanuatu and from maps can see deep anchoring may be required. But 99% of time 60 m of chain is all that is needed so will not stress about extra mess on that 1% of occasions.

[RaymondR]

Whilst Dyneema is exceptionally strong it is also susceptible to damage in a way that steel is not which makes it a risky proposition in the service you intend. If you doubt chain links cross cut the end links on the chain, clip them together and fully penetrate weld them with a low hydrogen rod.

[clownfishsydney]

Really not sure why you need 120 m of chain. We have 70 and have never put out more than 50 in 15 months of sailing Australian coastline.

[44'cruisingcat]

I'd suggest getting the old chain re galvanized. If it's already starting to rust, sitting in the chain locker it will continue to rust and if/when you go to use it, it may have fused together in a rusty heap.

Having said that, we took only 60m of chain to Vanuatu, spliced to 100m of 22mm nylon rode. The idea being that if we did anchor in say 30m, we'd put out the 60m of chain, plus around 20m of rope, thus keeping the chain/rope join off the bottom.

In actuality we only let out rope once. The anchorages over there generally weren't all that deep.

[Catapault]

I regularly use > 50m here in the med. Most ever has been 91, so appreciated having 100m on board. Its a pain to recover though, as have to give the cone a shove in the chain locker ever 30m or bit less.


Re: Linking. Use a Chain link. Dyneema if you don't trust it as a backup, but I think that a proper link is a better permenant solution.

Regards

Mark.

[travellerw]

If you don't like chain links, why not just use a shackle? It won't go over your Gypsy, but doesn't have any of the problems Dyneema has (being cut on coral). We use one and just play out (or bring in) that small section of chain by hand. Then lay the chain back on the gypsy once we are past.

Another option is something like this (called a Double Clevis Link). Then replace the pins with bolts and nuts (to ensure they don't get knocked out dragging on coral). That link is WELL over the breaking strength of the chain.
https://www.grainger.com/product/DAY...vis-Link-1DND1

[Bean Counter]

My experience of hanging on to rusty old chain; it continues to rust in the chain locker, it weighs a lot too, and when you let it out after having it sit there for 6 months it will spray rust particles all over the place both in and out and be a filthy mess when you retrieve it. Also as it rusts it will become untenable in the gypsy jaws and will slip and twist. As noted by a previous poster I would suggest getting rid of the weight and the mess and have a nylon rode spliced to it for the odd time it may be needed in a deep anchorage. Nylon anchor rode is bulky and takes up a lot of anchor locker space and so more chance of chain piling under the windlass and jamming, if possible it could be fed through a hole cut into an adjacent locker, don't know the lay out for the L400.

[noelex 77]

The good “C” links are OK with G3 or G4 chain. See a test here:
C-links – Cox Engineering

The bad “C” links are terrible and this is mostly what is sold in chandleries.

The other alternative is a double clevis link. These are strong (G7 or above) and have the major advantage that they can be connected and disconnected if you want to only occasionally add the extra chain.

There seems to be some variability regarding whether or not these will pass through the windlass. A recent Practical Sailor article stated that they will never pass through the windlass, but this is not correct. It does depend on the gypsy, the chain and the compatibility of the double clevis link, but in many cases they work.

As well as providing a removable strong link, the double clevis links, unlike a “C link” do not require any skill to use, so are worth a gamble providing you are prepared to take the risk that they may not work with your gypsy.

[thinwater]

60M is enough. Splice the rope to that and bin the rest. It will just turn into a rusted lump you can't trust. You don't need it and are better off without it.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by arsenelupiga

i have read on CF that chain links are not safe solution. Do you recommend any particular one ? I want definitely dyneema as plan B. Will go soon to Vanuatu and from maps can see deep anchoring may be required. But 99% of time 60 m of chain is all that is needed so will not stress about extra mess on that 1% of occasions.

I used Crosby links for years, never had an issue. Although some say you don't need to carry more than 50-60m of chain, I do. There's been many times I've had to anchor in 20m+ and have appreciated the chain.
I suppose it depends on your cruising plans.
No one drags due to to much chain.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by thinwater

60M is enough. Splice the rope to that and bin the rest. It will just turn into a rusted lump you can't trust. You don't need it and are better off without it.

It is not clear where the OP wants to cruise, but in some of the anchorages in the South Pacific and even in Australia itself, more than 60m of rode is desirable. Especially in coral locations, chain is much better than rope.

However, I agree that rusty chain makes a mess and even if you are prepared to tolerate this, the links need careful inspection to check there is not significant wastage.

[daletournier]

Also IMHO in the deeper stuff you don't need as greater chain depth ratio. I really doubt you need a 120m of chain. 100m will be more than adequate.

Also in 8 years of travelling I've never had to anchor in 30m, even in places like West Papua where it's very deep I've always been able to find a shallower spot. 20m quite often in some places and occasionally 25 when it was late and it wasn't safe to keep hunting around.

Also if you choose to splice rope to your chain which some suggest I'd choose 8 plait nylon. It's easier to coil and stores much easier in the chain locker. Personally I'd go all chain and a quality joiner.

Another option is welding a link, some may not like it but I've done it before with no problems.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Also IMHO in the deeper stuff you don't need as greater chain depth ratio. I really doubt you need a 120m of chain. 100m will be more than adequate.

100m is the gold standard. Even 60m is workable, but involves compromises so I can understand the desire for more.