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Old 11-04-2021, 10:43   #1
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Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

It looks like I'm getting ready to close on a 2007 Hunter 38 that I plan to use for East Coast US, Fl, Bahamas cruising. Primarily at first in the waters from Chesapeake to the Dry Tortugas.

The ground tackle on this boat is sort of a joke and I need to get it sorted. Currently it has a single Delta the size of which I'm unsure of but willing to bet its undersized as a working anchor. Its currently on 2 x 50' sections of 5/16" Grade 30 chain with 100' 3 strand rode. The two sections of chain are held together with I don't know what kind of POS Home Depot rusty nightmare.

There is a Simpson Lawrence (now discontinued parts nla) electric windlass with a gypsy for 5/16"chain and rope rode. It works and I'd rather not replace it right now. There is also a double offset bow roller which is nice.

LOA 38', beam 12', displacement just shy of 18,000lbs.

I have been using Hinz "The Complete Book of Anchoring and Mooring" as a guide and the ABYC and other data in the book to select sizes.

My plan was to put an appropriate sized Gen 3 anchor (Rocna, Manson Supreme, Mantus...) on 200' of new 5/6" Proof Coil Grade 30 chain as the primary working anchor.

If the Delta is the appropriate size put it on 100' new chain and 100' 1/2" new 3-strand nylon rode as a lunch hook. Otherwise replace it with an appropriately sized Bruce on the same chain/rode.

Have an appropriate sized (70% working load of primary) Danforth or Fortress as a stern anchor on 50' 5/16" chain and 150' 1/2" 3-strand nylon.

Q1: Is this a reasonable anchor/rode selection for my projected cruising grounds?

Q2: For the secondary anchor on the bow I was considering bending the 3-strand nylon rode to the chain using a shackle so that I could attach the secondary anchor to the head of the primary to use in a tandem arrangement if ever necessary. Is this a good idea? Should I use a shorter length of chain than 100' for this? 50'?

Q3: Which is going to be the best anchor for the stern Danforth vs Fortress vs? My plan was to mount on the rail with the rode not attached, and have the rode in a bag/box in a stern locker ready to shackle and use (bitter end already cleated somewhere, perhaps new cleat needed). This anchor would be for kedging off, emergency stops, med moors.

Q4: Anyone with experience on a Hunter 38 or similar (380, 386 etc) with insight? Particularly with what Gen 3 anchors fit the bow roller well.

Q5: According to the ABYC tables the 5/16" proof coil (grade 30) chain meets the load requirements. Does anyone recommend moving to BBB or G43? These are higher load limits but also more $ and significantly more weight (58% heavier at 44lbs/100' heavier). Will 5/16" BBB or G43 work on the same gypsy as G30?

I'm a complete neophyte but have been diligently working through what materials I have to get a good answer. If there's any option I haven't thought of please lmk.
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Old 11-04-2021, 11:23   #2
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

First, are you nuts! Asking an anchor question!

In my opinion the Delta is a good anchor and if properly sized you wonít see much improvement by switching to a newer anchor.

Yes you need to replace the chain. It needs to match the gypsy. Iím surprised that you have proof coil now as Iíve never seen a gypsy sized for proof coil. Switching to BBB will not gain any strength as it has the same strength as grade 30 proof coil.
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Old 11-04-2021, 11:36   #3
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

First, you need to understand that all 5/16" chain is not the same and will not all fit the same gypsy. More important than the diameter of the steel in the links (the 5/16" number is that) is the number of links per foot.

For example, I have a older SL windlass and the gypsy works with 3/8" BBB or 5/16" G4. It does not work with 5/16" BBB nor with 3/8" G4. The reason is 5/16 G4 has almost identical number of links per foot as the 3/8" BBB (within a small fraction of an inch).

So you need to determine what kind of 5/16" chain you have and match the new chain to that spec. Most chains have 3B or G4 cast into the side of the links or some every few links.

Also, John at SL Spares in Edenborough (yes the one in Scotland) has parts and manuals for most of the old SL windlasses.
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Old 11-04-2021, 12:10   #4
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

I'm partial to spade anchors, but any of the new gen are a step up over the delta.
Delta is not a bad anchor, the new gen are just better. Well worth the price for the added piece of mind.
For chain, you are limited to what your gypsy will accept. So if you want to upgrade, get a new gypsy or windlass as well.
5/16 bbb will be more than strong enough. Our 42 foot cat, close to the same weight, spent 20 years with that size.
I replaced it with g43 5/16, since I needed to replace the windlass too. Stronger and less weight were added bonus.
Congrats on the new boat! A great adventure is ahead of you!
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Old 11-04-2021, 13:04   #5
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

Amazon are supplying Anchors in the Uk at substantially lower prices than the local chandlers. I do prefer to support the local chandlers but they can't even buy at the prices Amazon are selling at.

This might be of interest. Steve is a member of the forum too.

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Old 11-04-2021, 14:25   #6
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

Good book and you seem to have a good plan. I'm a long-time Chesapeake and coastal sailor.



5/16" proof matches the windlass and the load. 45 pounds of good anchor should do it. But I would look at Spade (have used), Excel (have), and Viking (I'm hearing good things).

There is no such thing as a lunch hook, if you use chain and a windlass. The main anchor is the easiest to use. Just lay less scope if you are not leaving the boat. Thus, since the Delta becomes a secondary, probably not kept on deck, it's probably kind of useless. If you have a Fortress for kedge/secondary, I'd wait. You probably don't need it at all. But you could put it below.



I would use less chain on the kedge, probably 25', and the balance rope. This makes it easier to take out in a dinghy, and you don't need the chain for chafe, since you aren't swinging. The rope would be in 50' sections (Q2 answers why).

Q1: Is this a reasonable anchor/rode selection for my projected cruising grounds? See above.

Q2: For the secondary anchor on the bow I was considering bending the 3-strand nylon rode to the chain using a shackle so that I could attach the secondary anchor to the head of the primary to use in a tandem arrangement if ever necessary. Is this a good idea? Should I use a shorter length of chain than 100' for this? 50'? No! NEVER use in-line tandems. They are urban legend and actually reduce holding capacity. I have tested this in many combinations, as have others. The only place it can help is rock/shingle. IF you were going to do this (which basically no anchor maker other than Rocna recommends), it's more complicated than it sounds, you would only have 20-50' of chain between them, and never anything that stretches (no rope).


Here's a video that shows in-line tandems not working. He actually got better results than most. Remember you will always veer.


If you want two anchors, lay them at a 90-120 degree angle on separate rodes. The best way to add a secondary rode, so that you do not make a tangle when the boat spins, is to have a custom length rode that terminates to the main rode ~ 10' forward of the snubber. Don't use a shackle for the join. That will be weak at the size and can weaken the chain. Use a prusik hitch or soft shackle.


Another book on anchoring to consider is... mine. "Rigging Modern Anchors." The emphasis is on rigging and the above is explained.


Q3: Which is going to be the best anchor for the stern Danforth vs Fortress vs? My plan was to mount on the rail with the rode not attached, and have the rode in a bag/box in a stern locker ready to shackle and use (bitter end already cleated somewhere, perhaps new cleat needed). This anchor would be for kedging off, emergency stops, med moors. Fortress. But don't believe the emergency stop legend. You are better off to spin into the wind FAST and put down the main. This kills speed and helps you head in a safe direction. The main should be ready to go down by the time the boat stops. If there isn't room to spin the boat, there almost certainly is not room to get a stern anchor in the water, set, and stop a heavy boat. Won't work and you will hit something HARD. I have set anchors in emergencies in tight spaces, several times, and I used the main anchor. It worked.

Q4: Anyone with experience on a Hunter 38 or similar (380, 386 etc) with insight? Particularly with what Gen 3 anchors fit the bow roller well.

Q5: According to the ABYC tables the 5/16" proof coil (grade 30) chain meets the load requirements. Does anyone recommend moving to BBB or G43? These are higher load limits but also more $ and significantly more weight (58% heavier at 44lbs/100' heavier). Will 5/16" BBB or G43 work on the same gypsy as G30? G43 should fit, but grade 30 should be fine.

I'm a complete neophyte but have been diligently working through what materials I have to get a good answer. If there's any option I haven't thought of please lmk.
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Old 12-04-2021, 05:18   #7
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

Quote:
Originally Posted by HopCar View Post
First, are you nuts! Asking an anchor question!

In my opinion the Delta is a good anchor and if properly sized you wonít see much improvement by switching to a newer anchor.

Yes you need to replace the chain. It needs to match the gypsy. Iím surprised that you have proof coil now as Iíve never seen a gypsy sized for proof coil. Switching to BBB will not gain any strength as it has the same strength as grade 30 proof coil.
The problem is the delta is undersized (I think, need to get back to the boat).

BBB is not really any stronger and is 40% heavier.
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Old 12-04-2021, 06:02   #8
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

Have a slightly smaller Hunter 356, probably cruise at 16,000lbs, and went through the same thought process as we are based in the Chesapeake.

Installed a windlass and went to a 35lb Delta from a 22lb (joke) that had originally been on the boat and that was definitely better but tends to plow in the thick mud. In addition I only have 50' feet of chain and would like 100', you should be good with that and you rope rode if needed. Normally anchor with 3-5 to 1 scope in benign conditions and 7-10 to 1 in windy / storm conditions and use a bridle to help with sailing at anchor, which Hunters do.

After an incident decided on a 44lb Rocna upgrade as I knew this would fit on the rollers, confirmed by other Hunter 356 owners on Hunterowners.com (you might want to look there), and have never been happier. Hooks up and stays put...

In addition have a Fortress as a secondary anchor/stern anchor and is very light weight and holds great in the mud, think you would be totally satisfied with that setup.

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Old 12-04-2021, 08:54   #9
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

Based on my experience with a Hunter 386 and now Hunter 46:

Q1: Is this a reasonable anchor/rode selection for my projected cruising grounds? YES

Q2: For the secondary anchor on the bow I was considering bending the 3-strand nylon rode to the chain using a shackle so that I could attach the secondary anchor to the head of the primary to use in a tandem arrangement if ever necessary. Is this a good idea? Why, one should be enough? Should I use a shorter length of chain than 100' for this? 50'? Chain should be one boat length or 38 ft minimum

Q3: Which is going to be the best anchor for the stern Danforth vs Fortress vs? Either one, except a Fortress can be broken down for stowing My plan was to mount on the rail with the rode not attached, and have the rode in a bag/box in a stern locker ready to shackle and use (bitter end already cleated somewhere, perhaps new cleat needed). This anchor would be for kedging off, emergency stops, med moors.

Q4: Anyone with experience on a Hunter 38 or similar (380, 386 etc) with insight? Lots of experience with a 386 Particularly with what Gen 3 anchors fit the bow roller well. I used a 35 lb Manson Supreme on the Hunter 386 and 55 lb Manson Supreme on my Hunter 46 as it works well for the bottom conditions in the San Francisco Bay

https://www.mansonanchors.com/files/...1458554626.pdf

Q5: According to the ABYC tables the 5/16" proof coil (grade 30) chain meets the load requirements. Does anyone recommend moving to BBB or G43? These are higher load limits but also more $ and significantly more weight (58% heavier at 44lbs/100' heavier). Will 5/16" BBB or G43 work on the same gypsy as G30? Buy G43 chain and 5/16" chain works as long as it is compatible with your windlass gypsy
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Old 12-04-2021, 09:03   #10
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

Re the windlass: you need to contact John at SL Spares (Edinburgh, Scotland). A very useful & helpful chap for anything to do with Simpson Lawrence windlasses. He completely rebuilt my old Sea Wolf 520 - came back better than new.

Homepage | Simpson Lawrence Yacht Parts & Spares
About SL Spares Ltd
The proprietor has had 10 years experience at Simpson Lawrence Engineering both in Production and in Customer Support and on leaving in 2003 purchased all the Simpson Lawrence Toilet stock and some stock of the Simpson Lawrence Anchor Windlass Range.
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Old 12-04-2021, 09:57   #11
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clivevon View Post
Re the windlass: you need to contact John at SL Spares (Edinburgh, Scotland). A very useful & helpful chap for anything to do with Simpson Lawrence windlasses. He completely rebuilt my old Sea Wolf 520 - came back better than new.

Homepage | Simpson Lawrence Yacht Parts & Spares
About SL Spares Ltd
The proprietor has had 10 years experience at Simpson Lawrence Engineering both in Production and in Customer Support and on leaving in 2003 purchased all the Simpson Lawrence Toilet stock and some stock of the Simpson Lawrence Anchor Windlass Range.




My 2006 H38 came with a 22lb Delta - you are right about it being undersized. I now have a 20kg Rocna and it has worked well in BC waters. But replacing the chain was another issue.



John at SLS Spares was really helpful in identifying which gipsy was on my Simpson Lawrence windlass and therefore the appropriate chain. From him;
"The windlass can be physically fitted with either the RC162 or RC172, these are different gipsies, one (RC162) has 6 pockets and the other 7 pockets (RC172). From experience, I have only come across the Hunter range with the RC172 gipsy fitted which has a similar inference to the RC8MM, the RC in both instances means the gipsy can take rope and chain. The 8mm, is our European wire size which is the same as your 5/16". Peerless are the manufacturers of chain on your side of the pond, see https://www.peerlesschain.com/produc...ndlass-Chains/ for data. I think once you have checked your windlass, you will find it has the RC172 gipsy, either look for the identity or count the pockets. The RC172 takes the 5/16" G43 HT ISO chain."

I do have the RC172 gipsy and it is now fitted with the recommended chain ... and works really well . I also sourced a new spring and s/s control arm for the windlass from him ... arrived five days later. There is a Maryland company (P2 Marine) that has some Simpson Lawrence windlass parts available, but they were considerably more expensive at the time.

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Old 12-04-2021, 09:59   #12
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

Take a look at the video Pete7 recommended.
Steve has spent 5 years testing anchors and has the most extensive, unbiased testing available.

If you don't want to watch the whole video, skip to the result chart at 33:50.
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Old 12-04-2021, 10:42   #13
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

I did wonder about the tandem anchoring technique Steve used in his video. I hesitate to comment but I always thought the spare holes on anchor crowns were for use when tripping a fouled anchor? When tandem anchoring I understood the idea is to attach the 2nd anchor chain to the main anchor chain, a short length above the main anchor?

Attaching that tandem rode to the crown of the main anchor itself would always tend to pull that main anchor up out of the seabed under extreme pressure - which is exactly what happened in the tests.

I've never had to use 2 anchors for real but I understood the problem with V anchoring was if they dragged they would eventually foul each other in which case there is no hope they will reset themselves? Maybe best to use a V but with 1 rode being extra long?
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Old 12-04-2021, 11:32   #14
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

Year's ago, while anchored at the top of Sumatra, Indonesia, a Tropical low was making up, we were anchored at the end of a long harbor, exposed to the sea, based on what i had seen working offshore in the offshore oil exploration, i.e., pipe laying and drilling, i set two 35 lb. CQR'S on tandem in about 30 ft., with about 50 ft. of chain between, and about 150 of chain, plus about 200 ft. of rode, we got of the boat, as there was no more to be done, hunkered down on the beach, we watched green water go over the Yawl, with large waves rolling in, She did not drag, and we continued on at a later date, i don't know if the Tandem helped or not, BUT i know when the BIG offshore rig's move, they set a Tandem, to stop the problem, sooooo ?
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Old 12-04-2021, 12:59   #15
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Re: Anchor Selection Advice New Hunter 38'

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Year's ago, while anchored at the top of Sumatra, Indonesia, a Tropical low was making up, we were anchored at the end of a long harbor, exposed to the sea, based on what i had seen working offshore in the offshore oil exploration, i.e., pipe laying and drilling, i set two 35 lb. CQR'S on tandem in about 30 ft., with about 50 ft. of chain between, and about 150 of chain, plus about 200 ft. of rode, we got of the boat, as there was no more to be done, hunkered down on the beach, we watched green water go over the Yawl, with large waves rolling in, She did not drag, and we continued on at a later date, i don't know if the Tandem helped or not, BUT i know when the BIG offshore rig's move, they set a Tandem, to stop the problem, sooooo ?
Thanks for that. Useful personal experience if we ever get caught out. So how exactly did you link the 2 anchors? Tandem anchor Chain to main anchor chain? or tandem anchor chain to main anchor body?
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