Ropework tools

[Stumble]

If you aren't aware, Toss just released an updated 2nd edition of the Comolete Riggers Apprentice. So if you have been on the fence about it, now is the time.

Boulter,

My advice would be to buy a micro wand, and some 1/4" dyneema and just start to practice. The thing about the wands is that not only are they easier to use, but they are more precise allowing you to make better splices, and since they work for a range of sizes you really only need the one, maybe two the micro and small. I can probably count on one hand the number of times I have spliced single braid larger than 7/16 because there just aren't that many boats that need line that strong.

Other fids will work, but they don't work as well, and you need a different find for every rope size. I use the micro for pretty much everything unless it's really small (<7/64) where beading wire is the only thing small enough, or really large where just about anything will work.

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by Boulter

Hi:

Been following along. This is an area in which I know little, but aspire to know a bit more than little...

The height of my skill is that some of the eye loops I put into 3 strand a month ago for the rope luff of some sailrite sails might have been done properly, and there is a slight chance I could do a loop today.

Oh and I can tie a mean bowline.

When I dream big, I see myself perhaps putting loops in 12 strand dyneema and double braid polyester, maybe making some soft shackles. Material sizes would be 1/8 to 1/2 inch diameter.

I am sure the Brian Toss materials are marvelous for those who might be skilled one day, but my reality is that after 6 months, any knot I manage to puzzle through will need to be learned again as if I had never seen it before. Does not make any sense to save 30 seconds with a $100 tool after spending an hour studying how to do the knot.

So do I need anything more than the Sampson set of 5 or 6 fids and related bits? Maybe even that is too much investment. I have hardwood and a lathe, should be able to make a fid in 15 minutes.

Boulter

Hi Boulter
Regarding knots, yes, any new ones you learn and then don't tie for 6 months are very likely to be forgotten. I suffer the same problem even with my great enthusiasm for knots .

Appropriate tools make the task of splicing far easier, not just quicker. I do not believe that "appropriate" need be expensive though, particularly for infrequent work. For single braid dyneema a hollow biro tube may be perfectly adequate for most tasks with certain diameters of line.

I have been recently using a $1 disposable knife with snap off blades and it has been working remarkably well. Try cutting with anything blunt though and you will be permanently cursing.

I look at the splicing needles I purchased and they do the job far more easily than conventinal fids. Although a wand may work even better, I am perfectly content with the two needles I have, particularly given the limited amount of splicing I need to do. They cover splicing double braid from 5-18 mm (0.2 - 0.7") and look as if they could be made reasonably easily if you has some metal work skills. Simply bent wire has been also reported to work well (wire fids).

Regarding learning to do splices, I suggest you start with single braid dyneema. It is super pliable and squishes up easily so the line can be inserted and fed up the core very easily. The techniques are dead easy. Once you gain confidence and skill with that, then tackle double braid.

With limited knot tying skills soft shackles can be made simply using either Estarzinger's "overhand knot" stopper (I think he calls it an Improved Soft shackle) or a toggle. Otherwise learning to tie stopper knots needs a bit of practice. The rest of the construction is a piece of cake .

SWL

[Delancey]

I have a Toss splicing wand someone gave me and never use it. Mostly I use a length of stainless seizing wire folded in half. Works a treat. No need to make a big deal about it unless you got money burning a hole in your pocket.

Also, thought this might be of interest to some -

Duckworks - Take A Penny And Build A Sailmaker's Palm

[Bigjim]

I used to use a fid and pusher rod back in the day to do my loops and eyes in double braid. That's the extent of the work I needed to do for working line.

Never spliced a double braid rope to another, but often spliced twisted rope by reweaving the braid. Did that mostly for ornamental purposes. I was in the navy and did it for various types of rope work.

I once watched some boatswain mates splice wire rope together, that was fascinating.

[Bigjim]

BTW, just bought some fids. West Marine was listing them for $57! I nearly fainted. I kept searching and found a 3-fid kits for $3.99 from Walmart. They are from Willapa Marine.

You can get them from either place, but Walmart will ship them to your local store for free. Willapa will charge you $7.67 shipping. Still beats $57.00 plus shipping! The ones I owned in the past were aluminum. These are plastic, but I don't see any reason to doubt they will serve the purpose.

[topmast]

Six pages and not a mention of the making and use of a serving mallet .

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by topmast

Six pages and not a mention of the making and use of a serving mallet .

Serving wire rope I'm familiar with, but cordage? How does that work, & in what application is it used?

[StuM]

My very expensive wand:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2337850

[markwesti]

I need some help , okhaha very funny . The problem I'm having is sometimes (when the splice is finished) I only have core half way in the eye in other words if you were to squeeze the eye between two fingers you would feel core in only half the loop . Here is the method I'm using . If you see it please tell me at what point in the vid you think I'm making the booboo . Thanks . m
https://youtu.be/Ym1-rI0SdaA?t=31

[Boulter]

Thanks for the suggestions folks. I think I'll roll my own fid and splicing needle to start playing. If that proves unsatisfactory, then I'll investigate commercial products.

Boulter

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by markwesti

I need some help , okhaha very funny . The problem I'm having is sometimes (when the splice is finished) I only have core half way in the eye in other words if you were to squeeze the eye between two fingers you would feel core in only half the loop . Here is the method I'm using . If you see it please tell me at what point in the vid you think I'm making the booboo . Thanks . m
https://youtu.be/Ym1-rI0SdaA?t=31

I think it is likely the position you are marking C' is incorrect if you are finding this. This is the simplest error that would cause this problem.

Having said this, I have tried to look at the dynamics of Premium Ropes' marking positions and I think they would be prone to the problem you are describing after the splice had been put under heavy or prolonged load particularly if the line was short. I will open another thread to discuss this:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...55#post2338755

What I would do is look at what "fid length" scale you are using (I understand one fid length is 21x the rope diameter it has been made for), plus try following the Sampson Rope measurements for markings instead of the ones Premium Ropes give. The added bonus is that I think Samson's tapering method will produce a superior strength splice.

This is the Samson link:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cmGMP23vAUw

SWL

[SVTatia]

Originally Posted by Seaworthy Lass

...I look at the splicing needles I purchased and they do the job far more easily than conventinal fids. Although a wand may work even better, I am perfectly content with the two needles I have, particularly given the limited amount of splicing I need to do. They cover splicing double braid from 5-18 mm (0.2 - 0.7") and look as if they could be made reasonably easily if you has some metal work skills....

Originally Posted by Delancey

I have a Toss splicing wand someone gave me and never use it. Mostly I use a length of stainless seizing wire folded in half. Works a treat. No need to make a big deal about it unless you got money burning a hole in your pocket...

Lass, where did you buy the needles? My searches always return with fids...

See, I have money burning me pants....

I am trying to avoid the cost of the BT Wands, and once I get to be as good as Delancey I'll be able to use my wife's hair pins, but for now, I want to start with the easiest and proper tools
Thanks

[markwesti]

SWL thanks for looking at the vid and your comment about "C" point . I will give that a close look , as I have a project coming up . I hear you about small lengths of bury , my lack of core in the loop is apparent as soon as I finish not due to slip . More about bury , obviously I'm not consistent with my process as sometimes I get a really long jacket bury aft of the loop .

[Seaworthy Lass]

Originally Posted by SVTatia

Lass, where did you buy the needles? My searches always return with fids...

See, I have money burning me pants....

I am trying to avoid the cost of the BT Wands, and once I get to be as good as Delancey I'll be able to use my wife's hair pins, but for now, I want to start with the easiest and proper tools
Thanks

Hi SV Tatia
I bought the set of two needles recently from EMF Marine, a small German company, at the Düsseldorf boat show. They were 23 € for two SS ones. They are well made with no sharp edges and look sturdy enough to last a lifetime of continuous use. This is the link to their online shop:

EMF-Marine Online Shop

These look like similar needles from two other companies:

https://www.marlowropes.com/product/...licing-needles

Medium Splicing Needle - Best Prices for Rope in the UK. Sailing, Yachting Climbing and decking Rope by the meter - (Powered by CubeCart)

They work on the same principle as bent wire, except the "eye" is full length if you use wire bent over.

SWL

[Stumble]

You can also use crochet latch hooks you can pick up for a couple of bucks from a knitting store. I have had a lot of success with them, and they come with handles which is much nicer than wire.