New sail for the circumnavigating Bene 423

[YoloSF]

Hi cruisers!

It's time for a new main sail on the Beneteau 423. It was 11 years old so it had a great run. I was going to replace it anyways before our circumnavigation (starting march 2015), but it tore across the top (I believe it was from the batten getting stuck on the Lazy jacks too many times) and eventually gave way.

Well, lesson learned: loosen the lazy jacks before hoisting.

I'm going to get full battens and 3 reefs. These are the options I'm considering.

I'm looking at these sails. Since it's a big investment, I wanted to ask you guys, Any reason why I should go for one over the other? Any other sailmakers I should consider?

Beneteau 423 Tri-Radial Main Sail at Precision Sail Loft
$3,192.56


FX Sails Instant Online Sail Pricing
PRICE WITH OPTIONS: $4333.00


Thanks

[Stumble]

North Sails 3DI. It will be more expensive, but there is nothing else on the market with near the durability and shape retaining ability that I am familure with.

[MarkJ]

Spefically for long range, during my circumnavigation I got a new main, dacron, 2 reefs with the second quite deep and short battens to stop flogging damage... And full roach.

Why three reefs? And how will the third work? Its no fun in 40 knots tucking in a reef from the mast, is it? So how eill u rig it fir one line jiffy reefing?

[YoloSF]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Spefically for long range, during my circumnavigation I got a new main, dacron, 2 reefs with the second quite deep and short battens to stop flogging damage... And full roach.

Why three reefs? And how will the third work? Its no fun in 40 knots tucking in a reef from the mast, is it? So how eill u rig it fir one line jiffy reefing?

Thanks for the suggestion!

My reef lines go to the cockpit! I would never consider reefing from the mast.

Why short battens instead of full battens?

[Kestrahl]

I'm an experienced offshore cruiser and New Zealand Sailmaker. Looking at these online webshops for a offshore cruising main is a little scary! 7.1oz radial dacron is way to light for offshore cruising on this size boat! Sent you a PM with recommendations

Originally Posted by YoloSF

Hi cruisers!

It's time for a new main sail on the Beneteau 423. It was 11 years old so it had a great run. I was going to replace it anyways before our circumnavigation (starting march 2015), but it tore across the top (I believe it was from the batten getting stuck on the Lazy jacks too many times) and eventually gave way.

Well, lesson learned: loosen the lazy jacks before hoisting.

I'm going to get full battens and 3 reefs. These are the options I'm considering.

I'm looking at these sails. Since it's a big investment, I wanted to ask you guys, Any reason why I should go for one over the other? Any other sailmakers I should consider?

Beneteau 423 Tri-Radial Main Sail at Precision Sail Loft
$3,192.56


FX Sails Instant Online Sail Pricing
PRICE WITH OPTIONS: $4333.00


Thanks

[donradcliffe]

I agree 7 oz dacron is too light. What was the weight of the old sail, and how many sailing days did you have on it?? Do you have batt-cars, and how did the full-batten pockets hold up on the old sail??

I'd talk to a few local sailmakers to see what they say. I'd also ask the B423 owners group, which is pretty active.

[svTOTEM]

7oz warp oriented (for tri-radial) Daron is not a good choose. Warp oriented Dacron simply has a lower yarn count per inch (denier/inch) relative to fill oriented Dacron (crosscut) - meaning weaker/stretchier cloth. Why go with tri-radial for offshore cruising main on 42' boat?

North 3DI??? Laminate sails for cruising on this size boat do not have durability comparable to Dacron.

If you do intend to circumnavigate in any stretches with, ah, vigorous weather such as Indian Ocean route around South Africa - a 3rd reef is wise. Rig before the passage: 1st/2nd reef for tropical areas and 2nd/3rd in higher latitudes or before predicted weather arrives - not hard.

[Stumble]

Totem,

3DI isn't a laminate.

[svTOTEM]

Hmmm - from the North site:
"

3Di™ is a unique, patented sailmaking technology that allows laminated sails to approach the balanced loadbearing and shapeholding of a rigid airfoil. In simplified technical terms, 3Di is a flexible composite membrane built from pre-impregnated spread filament tapes applied in multiple axes and thermo-formed on a 3D (3DL) mold."

[Stumble]

Any your point? It differs from 3DL in that 3DI doesn't have thin laminate layers glued together. Which is the traditional failure method of 3dl. Water gets in, mold occurs, and the laminate sheets fall apart.

You are correct that it is a composite sail (ie more than one material) , but it really isn't a laminate.

[robert sailor]

I am not a fan of full batten mains offshore, I much prefer the top 2 battens full and the rest just long battens. In my experience it was easier to reef without resorting to more expensive batt car systems.

[svTOTEM]

Stumble - And my point is that 3Di in no way lives up to the durability claim that you made.

I should mention that I am a sailmaker /sail designer with extensive experience in sailcloth testing and development, including Cuban fiber in the '92 Americas Cup, and many other types of cloth for cruisers to mega-yachts and many sail for
Whitbread and BOC boats.

3Di is different than 3DL, but most certainly does have layers and yarns bonded together with "thermoset adhesive" - lamination some would call it. Delamination is largely caused by imperfect adhesion when made and flexing during use, not so much from water - and mold has very little to do with it except make it look like crap.

[Jim Cate]

I don't know about the OPs boat, but on ours when reefing in the dark at sea, the sail is often rudely squashed up at the clew , with creases and such being forced into the cloth. Not the way it looks in the pretty diagrams in the how to sail books... just reality!

In my experience, sails built upon mylar films don't like that process very much, and repeated instances lead to poor sail shape followed by weakening in the creased areas. The advantage of superior shape retention claimed for the laminates is compromised by this sort of life experience, I think! I suspect that even woven Dacron is not helped to a long life by this sort of abuse, but its tolerance is much higher. We recently replaced our mainsail, which was a tri-radial design in several different weights of Dacron. It had lasted through 10 years of full time cruising and over 40,000 logged miles. The cloth was still viable,but the shape had gradually deteriorated to the point that I scrapped it. OH... but someone else had a couple of hundred dollars of repairs done on it, and it is in use still on another boat. I very much doubt if a laminate sail would have done so well in the cruising crucible.

And FWIW, when I replaced that sail, I splurged on one made from Hydra Net spectra-dacron blend. If I'm still around in ten years I'll let you know if it lasts better. It sure holds its shape over a wider wind range than the old one!

Cheers,

Jim

[svTOTEM]

Hey Jim - there is a relatively cheap way to reduce that rudely squashed material around the leech reef, when reefed. Lash (with Dyneema) a low friction ring to the leech reef ring, with about 4 inches of gap between the two. There is still some squashing, but it's less rude to the sailcloth.

For toughness: Woven is tougher than laminated (mechanical over chemical). Dacron and Spectra are tougher than Aramids and Carbon.
For ,performance: laminated eliminates crimp (over/under of woven yarns that want to pull straight resulting in "constructional stretch"), polyester is stretchy, Spectra has creep, aramids don't like UV or flex, Vectran doesn't like UV, carbon is $$$.

Everything is a compromise, but well chosen sailcloth minimizes that.

[Vronsky]

Friend of mine purchased new sails with Lee Sails in Hongkong, ships worldwide,
Lee Sails: Sailmaker to the world
He claims he got a terrific price.