My in-mast furling is a nightmare

[sepharad]

I have a Kemp Reefin'+ in-mast roller furling "system", This is the predecessor of the Selden line.

In a nutshell it gets stuck and took 2 men 1+ hour of non-stop wrestling to get the sail out. Once refurled it is stuck again.

Selden had a replacement gearbox and tensioned luffspar upgrade which I have a Selden Rep looking for in Spain.

If parts are NOT available, is it possible to turn it into a Hanked on mast?

Thanks

[Spindrift NH]

I recently abandoned my hyde streamstay in mast furling system and converted to a tides track for slab reefing. I’ve yet to order a new sail for it so not in use yet but still will be better than fighting an old in mast system.
I closed up the slot with 3/16 aluminum plate riveted to the mast then added the track.

[TrentePieds]

Not only is it possible to convert. It would IMO be a very sensible thing to do.

If I were in your shoes, I would compare carefully the cost of repairing what you have against the cost of converting to a conventional main. Even if the reversion to a conventional main turns out to be more expensive than repairing what you have, you should, IMO, consider doing so.

I have no way of knowing if the Kemp system's mast is identical in cross-section to the Selden system's. IF it is, then immediately to port of the slot for the sail is a cove. If that is so, and if the cove's dimensions permit the use of "off the shelf" "slugs" which you can buy at any good chandlers, the conversion should be relatively easy, the only tricky part being the provision of a sheave in the mast crane - the "cap" to the mast - for taking the halyard.

My boat, a Fraser 30, has also been injured by a previous owner installing mast furling. I cope, but had I more years before me than I do, I would certainly re-rig her.

Mast furling is absolutely not necessary in a Vancouver27. For the vast majority of "use cases" it just makes life unnecessarily difficult.

If you decide to convert, I think you could do many, many people on the forum a great favour if you would let us accompany you on that journey by posting "progress reports" as your planning and the work progress.


All the best.

TrentePieds

[sepharad]

Would a rigger know if the cross section is the same Kemp/Selden?

[s/v Jedi]

In-mast furling is a path of tears. There’s no good solution but conversion to slab reefing with a fully battened main and lazy jacks is the best you can make of it. You still have the big bulky mast obstructing air flow but a new mast isn’t always available (hurricane damaged boats often have intact masts)

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

In-mast furling is a path of tears. There’s no good solution but conversion to slab reefing with a fully battened main and lazy jacks is the best you can make of it. You still have the big bulky mast obstructing air flow but a new mast isn’t always available (hurricane damaged boats often have intact masts)

Not true, certainly in the size of yachts we are discussing here. My Kemp/Selden inmast is a very similar size to the slab reefing used on sister yachts.

[Spindrift NH]

As for cost, trouble shooting my now abandoned in mast:
new sail, $2,700
new swivel, $1,100
new tension cable, $500
new wire to rope furling line, $200
new track car on boom, the old one was dragging, $600
total: $5,100 and it still didn’t work.

conversion cost:
Tides track with slides w/4 batten slides, $1,800
aluminum for slot, $700
misc tools and rivets, $150
total so far, $2,650
though I did have yard costs and still have to buy a sail. Wish I had skipped messing with the old pos and put my money into the conversion long ago

[NYSail]

My first few times with my in mast system were tough. Although once I figured out the workings I have never had an issue and love it. Items I found were necessary.
-No prebend in mast…..
-Tension on out haul when furling in
-Boom has to be angled up
-main halyard correctly tensioned

On my mast which is a US Spar, it was built with a slot so I have the option to move to a traditional main if I wanted which is nice.

Good luck

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by NYSail

My first few times with my in mast system were tough. Although once I figured out the workings I have never had an issue and love it. Items I found were necessary.
-No prebend in mast…..
-Tension on out haul when furling in
-Boom has to be angled up
-main halyard correctly tensioned

On my mast which is a US Spar, it was built with a slot so I have the option to move to a traditional main if I wanted which is nice.

Good luck

I have to agree. They’re not all bad. I guess when they are bad they are the worst however.

My last monohull had it. 50ft boat. Never a problem, singlehanded. It made everything easy. I don’t think it was great for sail shape, but other than that it was sure simple to use.

[paul.devalier]

Originally Posted by NYSail

My first few times with my in mast system were tough. Although once I figured out the workings I have never had an issue and love it. Items I found were necessary.
-No prebend in mast…..
-Tension on out haul when furling in
-Boom has to be angled up
-main halyard correctly tensioned

If you are decided, then it is done, but I just want to add weight to this answer. I always had trouble with furling out until I realised the above 4 points make it smooth as silk - but the main one, which generally fixes everything is angling the boom up 5 degrees. In any case, don't change the angle of the boom that furled it in (which is quite common when, for example, raising the mast for bimini clearance. This has worked on mine and on those of my neighbours. I also tend to go to the mast and hand pull. It works better to feel the snag and work through it.

[sepharad]

Why it's a done-deal for me.


When I bought my boat, it was in an astonishing state of preservation. It was essentially frozen in 1990. It had everything, life raft, dinghy, chart plotter, in mast furling and beautifully maintained.


The problem is, many of the systems were bleeding edge and are no longer used or serviced. Perfectly preserved, but useless.


The Kemp Reefin'+ was new technology. I foolishly assumed that meant good technology. After just a few years of production Selden bought the design and then faced constant complaints. The design was flawed, badly. An expensive set of upgrades was offered to "improve" the situation.


There are all sorts of tricks to get them to furl and unfurl successfully. I can tell you that after 2 hours of pulling, furling, pulling, changing wind direction, heading, loosening etc. We got it out.


The Rigger had NO success at all, in getting it to unfurl.



This is NOT a modern Selden setup. It is a pig and turning it into a silk purse isn't going to happen. IF, and thats a big if, the retrofit parts can be located, shipped and installed, it will still not be ideal.


I have found a note dated September 2004, by the original owner showing a desire to put a new track on the boom, buy a new sail and replace the Furling system.


We shall see if the gearbox and tensioned luffspar are available. In the meantime the suggestions I am getting here give me the first real hope I have of getting this to a tolerable situation.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by sepharad

When I bought my boat, it was in an astonishing state of preservation. It was essentially frozen in 1990. It had everything, life raft, dinghy, chart plotter, in mast furling and beautifully maintained.

So the problem is the yacht has been sat not being used for decades. Had it been used regularly and a new flat sail purchased, then likely it would still be working. We have a very similar Kemp in mast system (Reefin) and it works well, because it gets regular use and the sail is newish.

Some questions then:

Is this still the same main sail from the early 1990s? the boom angle in post 13 is different from post 17. Is this the camera angle or was the topping lift altered changing the angle of the boom to mast? We have the boom connected to the lower goose neck fitting which gives the boom a slight upwards angle to the outhaul, rather than the droopy angle shown in one of the photos.

Before lashing out a lot of money I would be tempted to take the mast down remove the in mast system and clean it, checking the bearings top and bottom and replace if necessary. If the main sail is baggy, that can also be a real source of problems, so replace it. Finally make sure the sail rolls in the correct way and hasn't been wound in in the wrong direction at some point.

I have uploaded a guide in the CF Library to the Kemp systems which may be of help.

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...do=file&id=104

Pete

[sepharad]

Actually,


The owner sailed it for 4 months each year, prior to his death in about 2018. While he must have had issues (based on his note) he nonetheless did all the tricks and got it to work.


Everything is original, but meticulously maintained. Sails were cleaned and stored in a heated sail loft each winter. Mast in a mast house. Put on land etc. etc.


The dock lines need replacing BUT...he had a full new set in storage. Everything but the hull was in storage each winter.


If the upgrade parts are available I may get them. If not I will try a servicing. I have all the original documents for the
-Kemp Reefin' and Reefin' + models.
-Hints and Advice,Selden updating of Kemp Drum Reefin Systems,
-Conversion of Kemp Reefin' R232/126 to furlin RB Mk2,
-Kemp Reefin' masts and Reefin' Plus.


(any and all I am happy to share and thank you for your link.)



Something has clearly gone wrong internally. Possibly when trucked from Denmark to Spain.


I will be taking it one step at a time.

[gonesail]

i sailed with a guy that had in boom furling. if you furled it just right .. with 2 people and a supervisor .. it worked. if not you were in for trouble.

[George_SD]

I also have in mast furling and agree that if everything is adjusted and in good shape - it works well and is a lot easier to manage than a traditional one. However, when it doesn't work - it's the worst thing. I had to troubleshoot and get very acquainted with all of the parts on my Z-spar system to ensure that it was lubricated and tensioned right. Because of the in-mast furling, the sail is not as big and the shape is less than ideal. Yet, even with those shortcomings - it's plenty for the boat and can overpower it.