My in-mast furling is a nightmare

[Loredo]

Same sails as the ones I've got, only my main has also full height vertical battens. Them 3DI's point higher and provide better speed than anything I've had before.
The only point I can't fully agree with is the "straight mast theory" for the IMF. I started tinkering with this already on my previous boat also with IMF...
On the (almost by now) new to me boat, I installed hydraulic pistons to adjust the back-stays. Well, bending the mast does work even with the IMF.
Unfurl the main, bend the mast to XYZ. To furl the main release the back-stay tension, done. I'm still testing and figuring things out but thus far I'm happy to finally be able to adjust the bend of the mast.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Loredo

Same sails as the ones I've got, only my main has also full height vertical battens. Them 3DI's point higher and provide better speed than anything I've had before.
The only point I can't fully agree with is the "straight mast theory" for the IMF. I started tinkering with this already on my previous boat also with IMF...
On the (almost by now) new to me boat, I installed hydraulic pistons to adjust the back-stays. Well, bending the mast does work even with the IMF.
Unfurl the main, bend the mast to XYZ. To furl the main release the back-stay tension, done. I'm still testing and figuring things out but thus far I'm happy to finally be able to adjust the bend of the mast.

You better make a bright orange warning sign to straighten the mast before furling and use that as a cover over the furling control knob or you will become a statistic

[Loredo]

No need for an orange warning sign. I've got a brain provided with memory and can remember to turn a knob to release pressure before furling.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Loredo

No need for an orange warning sign. I've got a brain provided with memory and can remember to turn a knob to release pressure before furling.

Famous last words

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

My opinion is the exact opposite of this.

For coastal sailing, fair weather, mild latitudes, in-mast furling doesn't make much sense. For that kind of fun, give me a roachy full-batten mainsail any time.

When coastal sailing one of the things we need to keep an eye out for is downdrafts and wind shifts caused by valleys and headlands, often without much warning. St Albans head at 354 ft with an inshore passage just yards off the shore being a classis example. We had a 180 deg wind shift and back again once cleared the headland. The wind speed wasn't sufficient to need a reef but it wouldn't have been a problem if needed.

Being able to hang on to full sail in a good downwind breeze makes good progress, but if rounding the next bend means reducing sail area quickly hope there is no need to go to windward first.

The OP hasn't been back since the 22nd, shame.

Pete

[Nicholson58]

On smaller boats an in mast is probably manual like the charter we did in the North Channel last week. It did take the two old guys to pull in. A bit tough for our wives unless they used a winch.

Our electric furler in the Caribbean failed utterly last season after 38 years. Water had entered the gear box and various bearings were gone. The epicyclic reducer pins broke etc. Basket case. No modern substitute to fit the old Hood mast so it’s been rebuilt. I’ll install in Trinidad in October. That’s pretty good service I guess. Coincidentally, the swivel failed at the same time. Possibly related. I rebuilt this myself.

[sepharad]

I promised my resolution, and here it is:

The Kemp in mast system was flawed at creation. After Selden bought them they offered a series of upgrade items. Now they seem to know less than I do, which is pretty poor. They have no idea what parts they have that I need to complete this project.

My rigger proposed Installing the Harken track and truck installation, along with a new North mainsail with full battens and 2 reefs, a lazy bag system with lazy jacks.

Parts, Labor and IVA tax came to 8,325€.

First they pulled the mast.
They ripped the guts out of it.
They installed the track into the now empty mast ordered the trucks and sail and installed them. IT WORKS SEAMLESSLY.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by sepharad

I promised my resolution, and here it is:

The Kemp in mast system was flawed at creation. After Selden bought them they offered a series of upgrade items. Now they seem to know less than I do, which is pretty poor. They have no idea what parts they have that I need to complete this project.

My rigger proposed Installing the Harken track and truck installation, along with a new North mainsail with full battens and 2 reefs, a lazy bag system with lazy jacks.

Parts, Labor and IVA tax came to 8,325€.

First they pulled the mast.
They ripped the guts out of it.
They installed the track into the now empty mast ordered the trucks and sail and installed them. IT WORKS SEAMLESSLY.

Congratulations! I bet you sail a good bit faster too!

[sepharad]

FASTER!!! Sail at all! It took 2 hours to unfurl the sail once! I could not post the video, it hoisted one handed. Sadly I am moving to Frnce and so it will be stored until spring. So a bit more of a wait.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Pete7

When coastal sailing one of the things we need to keep an eye out for is downdrafts and wind shifts caused by valleys and headlands, often without much warning. St Albans head at 354 ft with an inshore passage just yards off the shore being a classis example. We had a 180 deg wind shift and back again once cleared the headland. The wind speed wasn't sufficient to need a reef but it wouldn't have been a problem if needed.

Being able to hang on to full sail in a good downwind breeze makes good progress, but if rounding the next bend means reducing sail area quickly hope there is no need to go to windward first.

The OP hasn't been back since the 22nd, shame.

Pete

Point well taken.


I guess it also depends on the latitude.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by sepharad

I promised my resolution, and here it is:

The Kemp in mast system was flawed at creation. After Selden bought them they offered a series of upgrade items. Now they seem to know less than I do, which is pretty poor. They have no idea what parts they have that I need to complete this project.

My rigger proposed Installing the Harken track and truck installation, along with a new North mainsail with full battens and 2 reefs, a lazy bag system with lazy jacks.

Parts, Labor and IVA tax came to 8,325€.

First they pulled the mast.
They ripped the guts out of it.
They installed the track into the now empty mast ordered the trucks and sail and installed them. IT WORKS SEAMLESSLY.

Congratulations on sorting this out!

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

On smaller boats an in mast is probably manual like the charter we did in the North Channel last week. It did take the two old guys to pull in. A bit tough for our wives unless they used a winch.

Our electric furler in the Caribbean failed utterly last season after 38 years. Water had entered the gear box and various bearings were gone. The epicyclic reducer pins broke etc. Basket case. No modern substitute to fit the old Hood mast so it’s been rebuilt. I’ll install in Trinidad in October. That’s pretty good service I guess. Coincidentally, the swivel failed at the same time. Possibly related. I rebuilt this myself.

Kudos for that! I would say 38 years of service is pretty bloody good!

My Moody has the Selden system, which I'm very satisfied with. I just went through this on my boat this year with only 22 years of service. Not a basket case but needed replacement of all bearings, bearing races, and seals in the gearbox, which I had done in Malmo by an ex-Selden factory guy for around a boat buck.

Our Discovery 67 has a Bamar electric system which I don't like. The owner has spent a ton of money on it. Recently discovered that a cutoff switch was bypassed and the brake was connected wrong -- that after having spent 10s of thousands on it last year . Maybe I will like it better now; we'll see.

What must be an inherent disadvantage of the electric systems, however, is the lack of feel. I like being able to feel what's going on with my Selden system, even when using it with an electric winch.

[OneBoatman]

This a long thread, too long to read, but do explain what you mean by "it gets stuck". If you mean the sail gets stuck inside the mast, you are doing something wrong. First, just the same as a non-in mast furling you should: Come into the wind, so that the sail is luffing. The others must dos are: Keep light tension on the leach; your vang, kicker, or topping lift should be pre-set to do this without tending since furling type mainsails are made with less roach. Be certain that you do not have excess backstay tension as this may work against you. A mostly straight mast is needed for in-mast furling to work well. Finally keep some light tension on the outhaul as you furl so you obtain a tight wrap.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by OneBoatman

This a long thread, too long to read, but do explain what you mean by "it gets stuck". If you mean the sail gets stuck inside the mast, you are doing something wrong. First, just the same as a non-in mast furling you should: Come into the wind, so that the sail is luffing. The others must dos are: Keep light tension on the leach; your vang, kicker, or topping lift should be pre-set to do this without tending since furling type mainsails are made with less roach. Be certain that you do not have excess backstay tension as this may work against you. A mostly straight mast is needed for in-mast furling to work well. Finally keep some light tension on the outhaul as you furl so you obtain a tight wrap.

Mostly good advice here, however -- most experienced users of in-mast furling do NOT indeed luff up into the wind to furl. Finding that having some wind in the sail is beneficial to a smooth roll.


I typically do not change course when I furl -- I can do it on any point of sail. Exception to that is sailing downwind in very strong wind on the disfavored tack (port on my boat), where the sail can be very hard to make turn 180 degrees around the slot in the mast. I will typically gybe in that situation.

[s/v Jedi]

Luff up, do not luff up… truth is that in mast furling is a nightmare and the only solution to prevent jamming it is to remove it like OP did.

He now enjoys a real powerful fully battened main with much more surface area and shaped like the wing it’s supposed to. And the best feature: it never jams inside the mast because it safely stored in a stack pack which it is safely and quickly guided down into using lazy jacks and that thing most in-mast furler lovers only use when their sails are jammed: a halyard