What hose to use

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Suijin

...................- Be careful of corners. Pex is not as flexible as the usual hose and you don't want to kink it ............................

You can buy 90 degree fittings if you need a tight corner. You can also buy a "guide" for bends that snaps onto the pipe and makes a radius without the possibility of kinking.

[HopCar]

This is the Pex corner guide that Ron mentioned. http://www.seatechinc.com/pages/hi_r....asp?imgId=188

[appick]

An oddity on my boat is the Person who did the original fitting out was an industrial plumber/ boiler guy. Great big heavy duty bronze valves all over for raw water. The exhaust system on the boat should last a lifetime or at least the lifetime of the engine done in 2-1/2 in bronze. The freshwater is run in copper pipe routed very carefully to tuck out of the way. He did a great job. 40+ years later no leaks no issues. Although I'm sure it took quite alot of time.

[keepondancin]

Pex is great for a boat the only issue with a crimp system over using slip fittings like shark bites or Watts, is the 1/2" brass fittings are 3/8" ID, so you are building restrictions in the system. I have been given serious consideration to replumbing, and I think I will not use crimps. Bristol used copper in their build.

[redsky49]

Originally Posted by rwidman

You can buy 90 degree fittings if you need a tight corner. You can also buy a "guide" for bends that snaps onto the pipe and makes a radius without the possibility of kinking.

That is the downside to PEX. It doesn't permit tight radius turns. You will instead need to use plastic elbows.

Be sure that you select PEX (cross linked polyethylene) tubing that is suitable for potable water systems (NSF Listed). PEX comes in a variety of formulations for different applications. It also is produced by several different techniques, with PEX-a being a better quality tubing than several alternative methods. With PEX now being a cost sensitive commodity, I suspect that there are unlabeled varieties being sourced from offshore. Choose wisely.

It was first approved in this country for hydronic heating systems. Though it had been in use in Europe for 20 years, when it was first being marketed in the US in the '90's it faced considerable resistance from Code Enforcement Officials, and building officials took a long time before they accepted it just for heating systems. It filled a niche, particularly in radiant floor heating.

Uponor (Wirsbo) came to my office (mid '90's?) with a great demo and we all made connections and tried our best to pull them apart. Nobody succeeded. I imagine that Sailorchic had a similar experience.

While I think Uponor was the first to market in the US, they have been followed by a variety of competitors and imitators - of varying quality.

The main downside with the Uponor system was the cost of the proprietary couplings and installation tool. The slip-on fittings, while not as durable in my mind as the crimped-on type, certainly are easier, and require next to no experience to install. If installing tubing in a wet bilge, the plastic fittings may in fact be more appropriate.

[redsky49]

Originally Posted by keepondancin

Pex is great for a boat the only issue with a crimp system over using slip fittings like shark bites or Watts, is the 1/2" brass fittings are 3/8" ID, so you are building restrictions in the system. I have been given serious consideration to replumbing, and I think I will not use crimps. Bristol used copper in their build.

You could conceivably get one hundred years of service from your copper tubing. My copper tubing is doing quite well. That being said, there are two issues that might be worth consideration.

In recent years we have all learned about the dangers of lead in drinking water. With marine systems we should all be concerned about the presence of lead in bronze (pipe fittings), brass (plumbing faucets, shower heads) and in soldered joints (solder wire containing lead). Much of this applies to any freshwater system aboard, regardless of pipe material. This is particularly true in older boats, as well as boats manufactured with Asian components.

The second concern is work hardening, which shouldn't be an issue unless you have modified the original tubing, and bent, or re-bent, the tubing. This creates a strain/weakness in the grain structure of the copper.

While copper does not have the freeze expansion capacity of PEX or vinyl, it also does not suffer from chlorine or anti-freeze damage. It is a bit more challenging to modify when necessary.

For adequate flow rates, 3/8" is entirely acceptable, and I would prefer it over 1/2" for any runout to a fixture.

[jeepbluetj]

The copper pipe in my (land) neighborhood lasts about 30 years. Then we all had pinhole leaks, slab leaks, etc.. The chemistry of the water was tough on copper.

As I mentioned before, that led me to use the Uponor Pro-Pex to redo my entire house. By far the best solution if you can borrow the tool. Only Pex-A for this system.

Push on fittings can use a lesser grade of pex. They're dang easy to use too.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by jeepbluetj

The copper pipe in my (land) neighborhood lasts about 30 years. Then we all had pinhole leaks, slab leaks, etc.. The chemistry of the water was tough on copper.

That is about what I got to out of my copper tubing in my house, and I thought copper was forever? Anyway it was all replaced with Pex and using manifolds, it worked better as in higher flow and less pressure loss etc., you didn't worry about the toilet being flushed when you were in the shower

[redsky49]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

That is about what I got to out of my copper tubing in my house, and I thought copper was forever? Anyway it was all replaced with Pex and using manifolds, it worked better as in higher flow and less pressure loss etc., you didn't worry about the toilet being flushed when you were in the shower

I don't recall the details, but there were a rash of copper pipe/tubing failures in the '80's. My recollection is that the municipalities were using a new additive to prevent calcification in the lines, and combined with some other factors, led to pinhole failures.

Class action lawsuits resulted and hundreds, if not thousands, of homes were re-piped from scratch. I was in Colorado at the time, and some buried copper was also impacted due to soil chemistry. Maybe someone else has a better recollection of this.

Copper tube also comes in several wall thicknesses, as well as temper. Plus "Cleaned and Capped" for hospital and lab use.

Copper, as well as cast iron for waste and vent systems, would still be my first choice for residential plumbing - at least above grade. Copper also transfers over to boats. PEX and vinyl tubing are preferred by builders due to reduced material cost and less qualified installation labor.

And of course, you cannot build a genuine back woods still without a copper coil - moonshine!

[HopCar]

Here in Miami copper pipes in homes usually last the life of the house. My house is 67 years old and still no leaks.

A lot of older homes here have galvanized pipe which fails after about thirty years.

PVC and Pex are pretty much standard for new construction now.

The soil here is alkaline. I bet the soil is acid where the copper fails.

[redsky49]

Originally Posted by HopCar

Here in Miami copper pipes in homes usually last the life of the house. My house is 67 years old and still no leaks.

A lot of older homes here have galvanized pipe which fails after about thirty years.

PVC and Pex are pretty much standard for new construction now.

The soil here is alkaline. I bet the soil is acid where the copper fails.

Galvanized pipe should not be used. Period. Not on a boat. Not in a house. It rots from the inside out. I have stuck a screwdriver through a galvanized pipe which looked perfectly fine from the outside.

Buried copper was quite common, and remains so, for the service entrance from street to house. Frequently it is wrapped or protected, but it will still suffer in certain soil chemistries. For commercial projects, ductile iron, or one of the many "plastic" pipes might be a better choice.

Construction methods, as well as materials, vary across the US, as does the advance of technology. In many instances, piping materials from the 1870's are still in use in the older large metropolitan areas. They are fragile though and can easily become catastrophic (See Flint, Michigan and toxic water pipes). In many large cities the storm water feeds into the waste water lines. In a heavy downpour, the mixed affluent runs into rivers, up people's basement floor drains, etc.

[a64pilot]

My house was built above ground, so copper was all above ground. The water ate it, which is odd as all the water is ground water and from limestone, so it is not acidic at all, if anything it's base.

[jr_spyder]

I know this is an old thread but I found it interesting and useful to my potential project to re-plumb my boat. Back to the first post I have the same stinky fresh water just in the hoses if left for a while. The tanks stay fresh. I have the standard reinforced vinyl hose throughout the boat. Now tying in the end of the thread about copper - isn't copper sort of self sanitizing? I'm sure I'm not saying this right, but I know copper is sometimes used to kill bacteria and algae in other applications, so it seems to me copper pipes must do the same. Since the stink problem is from nasty growth in vinyl/rubber hoses when water is left to sit for a while, I have to wonder if this wouldn't happen in copper. It certainly doesn't at home when left for a long time.

Don't get me wrong, I love PEX and have done a lot of it at home(s), but if I really want to solve the stink problem on the boat is copper the better choice?

Thoughts?

[zeehag]

to keep the smell down, frequent flushes of entire system are important-- run your water thoroughly once weekly and when tank is being filled to clear out the rotting water which makes the reeeking happen. i add a little vinegar to my tanks to minimize the molds and such which cause the steeenk. vinegar does not screw up my tank welds. clorox does. oopsy. clorox does not kill the slime molds that grow in hoses and tanks , vinegar does.,

[Suijin]

I have a friend who owns a large very successful plumbing business. He ripped out all the domestic water plumbing on his boat and replaced it with PEX. That was endorsement enough for me. I'll get around to it eventually...