What hose to use

[a64pilot]

I think it’s actually silver, not copper that is anti microbial, and colloidal silver, whatever that means.

I too get the “slime” and odor in my lines. I have an aluminum tank so choline shocking the tank is not an option.
Current plan is to disconnect tank from pump and connect a hose to a 5 gl bucket with chlorine water mix and pump it through all the fresh water system and let it sit for some hours.
I don’t know how strong a chlorine solution, nor do I know how long to let it sit.
I believe I remember some time ago Sailorboy1 commenting that this was a sessile bacteria colony, I’m guessing he has a background in water purification? Cause I’m not sure what a sessile colony is or if I’m even spelling it right.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by Suijin

I have a friend who owns a large very successful plumbing business. He ripped out all the domestic water plumbing on his boat and replaced it with PEX. That was endorsement enough for me. I'll get around to it eventually...

I'm replacing everything for PEX at the moment.. In theory, the PEX should outlast the hull!

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think it’s actually silver, not copper that is anti microbial,

+1. Many anti-microbial treatments in refrigerators used to basically consist of a silver powder dose in the surface of the interior plastic panelling.

[a64pilot]

I don’t know if I have said this or not, but Pex is the good stuff, that and shark bite fittings and it doesn’t get better than that.
Also you can even freeze a Pex line with water in it and it won’t hurt it. I doubt the fitting would survive though.
To do a boat, I would not use the regular Pex fittings and compression rings myself although I have in a house.

[US1Fountain]

I'm also replacing all my plumbing and have decided to go PEX, to replace the original grey plastic lines with rubber compression seals. I want to use the PEX Uponor vs any type of pushon (I just don't trust them to be 100% leakproof), but all the expander tools I'm finding are for 1/2" and above, no 3/8". This would require all tubing to be upsized from my current and have to take in account of the larger bend radiuses. Am I mistaken?

[a64pilot]

I think 3/8” is common?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/SharkBit...3383/205435373

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I think it’s actually silver, not copper that is anti microbial, and colloidal silver, whatever that means...

A colloidal solution, sometimes known as a colloidal suspension, is a solution in which a material is permanently & evenly suspended in a liquid. In other words, a colloid is a microscopically small substance that is equally dispersed throughout another material.

A sessile colony is immobile, that is permanently attached to a substrate or to the base, hence, not freely moving.

[CaptTom]

I think it's true that copper has antibacterial properties. It's been used on hulls for a long time, and it's getting a new look for use in hospital handrails and such. Apparently it's the only thing that will kill the new "super bugs" that are appearing.

The only times I've seen "funk" growing in potable water plumbing is when it's rarely used. I haven't tried, but I suspect Zeehag is onto something with her vinegar treatment. I suspect flushing with a bleach solution, then leaving a dilute vinegar solution in the unused pipes would both kill the immediate batch of bugs, and prevent new growth.

PEX is great, I have finally invested in a "real" crimping tool so I don't have to use only SharkBite style fittings. While they're easy to install, they can be a challenge to remove from tight spaces, and it's probably cheaper in the long run to cut out and replace (with new tubing and crimp connections) anything that needs to be serviced.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

The only times I've seen "funk" growing in potable water plumbing is when it's rarely used. I haven't tried, but I suspect Zeehag is onto something with her vinegar treatment. I suspect flushing with a bleach solution, then leaving a dilute vinegar solution in the unused pipes would both kill the immediate batch of bugs, and prevent new growth.

I sanitize my domestic water system every couple of years. (1/4 bleach to every 15 gallons). Fill the tanks, run the water through the hoses and fixtures, let sit 24 hours, empty the whole system and refill. Oh before that I empty the tanks and inspect through the inspection ports.

[jbinbi]

Is there a tool to open up the inspection ports on the tank. My tank is blue plastic, with red circle covers that have a cross indented. They are impossible to unscrew by hand. I tried putting a piece of plywood in with a vice grips, bit only broke the plywood.

I want to do this because I would fill tank with bleach vinegar solution, run a few gallons through the lines, but then pump out the rest with a cheap high powered pump rather than running 80 gallons through the water pump. Also, for the winter, it would be easier to drain tanks this way .

Sorry to go a bit OF, though for this forum, not very much😉

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

The only times I've seen "funk" growing in potable water plumbing is when it's rarely used. I haven't tried, but I suspect Zeehag is onto something with her vinegar treatment. I suspect flushing with a bleach solution, then leaving a dilute vinegar solution in the unused pipes would both kill the immediate batch of bugs, and prevent new growth.
.

I googled cleaning sessile bacteria from drinking water plumbing and came up with one interesting hit, apparently a lab that was using RO water for their mice got a sessile bacteria growth in the RO plumbing, they first used chlorine to kill the bacteria, then an acid solution to clean it out, I think maybe acetic acid or similar, but vinegar is of course an acid and ought to work too, and is probably easier to get.

[jr_spyder]

For all you PEX users I guess the remaining question is if you get stinky water when it sits for a while in PEX?

For all the input above about "keep the water moving" or "sanitize regularly" - yes, yes, yes - all good and obvious advice. But sometimes it's just not possible to be on the boat and run the water regularly, so it just sits there. That's the problem to solve. It was the reason for my pondering if copper pipes simply don't grow stink like they never do in long dormant pipes at home (for the guest bathroom for example, which is rarely used, but the water in the copper pipes stays fresh (in my case well water, not chlorinated city water)).

I've long been un-scientifically suspicious that the standard boat hoses made of vinyl and/or rubber simply are the wrong material for fresh water and let nasty stuff grow in them. But copper, and maybe PEX, don't.

So how about first hand experience with PEX and stink?

Thanks,

JR

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by jr_spyder

For all you PEX users I guess the remaining question is if you get stinky water when it sits for a while in PEX?

For all the input above about "keep the water moving" or "sanitize regularly" - yes, yes, yes - all good and obvious advice. But sometimes it's just not possible to be on the boat and run the water regularly, so it just sits there. That's the problem to solve. It was the reason for my pondering if copper pipes simply don't grow stink like they never do in long dormant pipes at home (for the guest bathroom for example, which is rarely used, but the water in the copper pipes stays fresh (in my case well water, not chlorinated city water)).

I've long been un-scientifically suspicious that the standard boat hoses made of vinyl and/or rubber simply are the wrong material for fresh water and let nasty stuff grow in them. But copper, and maybe PEX, don't.

So how about first hand experience with PEX and stink?

Thanks,

JR

Regarding PEX, read through the following:
https://www.awwa.org/publications/jo.../55379304.aspx

The study found that six of the eight PEX pipes had AOC levels exceeding 100 ug/l on day 7 of the cycle- just to note 100 ug/L of AOC is when coliform detection occurs. By day 28, however, none of the PEX pipes exceeded the microbial regrowth threshold.

Basically, with PEHD/PEX, all of the VOC/AOC leaching happens in first 30 days.. if you flush thoroughly after that, there's no more microbial growth than copper.

With respect to Copper read:
https://safewater.zendesk.com/hc/en-...ions/202346427

According to the EPA copper can “leach into water primarily from pipes, but fixtures and faucets (brass), and fittings can also be a source.” “the amount of copper in the water depends on the types and amounts of minerals in the water, how long the water stays in the pipes, the water’s acidity, and its temperature.”
Over consumption of copper can lead to nausea, gastrointestinal problems, liver damage, and kidney disease, amongst others.

Nevertheless, due to the fact that copper has more potential to leach into the water when it is idle (more than six hours), one should run the drinking water for 30-60 seconds before consuming.

Accordingly “after the initial leaching” of copper pipes, “the inner surface of the pipes forms a hard surface that should reduce further leaching.”

It's clear that both Copper and PEX need to go through a commissioning cycle within 30-60 days of installation to flush out any leach contaminants that can increase microbial growth on the pipe walls.

However, PEX is so much simpler to run in a boat...

[a64pilot]

I believe a lot of plastics outgas chlorine or similar for some time after manufacture. It may be because of this that you rarely see any microbial growth in bottled water?
I also want to think some sports water bottles were advertised as reducing microbial growth, but that’s going way back to my bicycling days.

[Cavalier]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

I believe a lot of plastics outgas chlorine or similar for some time after manufacture. It may be because of this that you rarely see any microbial growth in bottled water?

Yes, PVC piping, in particular, being composed of Vinyl Chloride, has some outgassing issues. Unfortunately, your utility water passed through a lot of PVC on the way to your home, but rarely sits stagnant due to neighborhood use.

PEX is cross-linked Polyethylene (PE). Ethylene is made from steam cracking of petro-hydrocarbons, and is one of the most prevalent organic compounds produced on the planet. Polyethlyene is made from ethylene and a catalyst, such as benzyl peroxide. A benzyl peroxide molecule breaks down into two pieces, each with an unpaired electron. This type of molecule fragment is called a free radical. The unpaired electron in a free radical will now search for electrons to pair with in the ethylene feedstock. This is the mechanism that polymerizes the ethylene into Polyethylene. Polyethylene is used primarily for drinking water bottles and plastic bags etc.

PEX-A (Uponor, Mr. Pex) tubing is produced by mixing Peroxide with the PE prior to extrusion. During the manufacturing process, free radicals are created when HDPE polymer is melted and cross-links between molecules occur at temperature.

PEX-B (Watts, Everhot) uses a catalyst to cure as part of a hot-water bath emersion method (peri-extrusion).

PEX-C (Roth, Nibco) uses an electron beam to achieve cross-linking. This was the original method used to make PEX in the 1930s.

The state of California requires contractors to flush PEX piping after installation, as part of a series of regulations meant to address concerns about its impact on water quality. When installing PEX piping as part of new construction, contractors must flush the pipe system for at least 10 minutes, let the system stand for no less than one week and then flush the system long enough to empty the contained volume of water.

Some studies have shown that the organic compounds (such as bisphenol A, or BPA) that can leach into your water from some water bottles, have the ability to change the gender of fish in rivers, making a larger proportion of the new fish population female, which has resulted in the overall reduction in the populations of some river fish.

My long-term hope is that PEX piping in boats will result in more female cruisers..

[jr_spyder]

Cavalier, fantastic and very informative responses. Happy to go with PEX. Thanks.