Throuh hull valve type

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

You are correct.
If one wishes to install the "flange adaptor" type their is something to think about before bolting the adaptor into/onto the hull.
Murphy's Law assumes that when the ball valve is screwed onto the adaptor and when it reaches the proper tightness that the handle will never be in the orientation that you wish.
Screw the parts together before installation to determine where the valve handle will end-up and mark the flange so that when installed the handle will be where you want it.
It's a small thing, but groping around/behind hoses to operate a seacock handle is sometimes not so easy, and Murphy says that you will always suffer cuts from the hose clamps.
A replacement valve might not end-up in the same orientation, but that will, (or should,) be years down the road.

Indeed!
A dry fit, prior to final assembly, is very often a good idea.

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

"Also any North American builder that list ABYC cert will be using flanged seacocks".

What North American builders list ABYC certification? I can't find any and AFIK there is no such thing as an ABYC certified boat builder.

Trudesign ball valves comply with ABYC and don't have flanges.

"Cert" was probably the wrong colloquillism here, compliance is the better term.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by ItDepends

First: Seacocks are NOT "standard ball valves." The difference is standard ball valves have tapered thread, seacocks have straight thread. The reason is that straight thread fittings ALWAYS bottom out and fully engage the thread for maximum strength.

If what is depicted is a Groco flange adapter, then what is on top of it is a standard Groco ball valve with NPT threads, like this one: https://www.groco.net/products/valve...s-inline-valve. The flange adapters are NPS to NPT inherently.

Originally Posted by ItDepends

Second: Flanges are a good idea because they make the whole installation stronger. Nothing too strong ever broke. Things that "are strong enough, I think" break all the time. When I am 1000 miles offshore, on the parts of the boat that keep the water out, I much prefer too strong over "strong enough."

In engineering, it is axiomatic that stronger is not necessarily better. That is because something can always be made stronger. There is always the question, whether you like it or not, whether something is "strong enough". That is one of the basic jobs of engineering. This as true of through hulls as it is of airplane main wing spars.



Possibly the reason why views on this are so different in Europe vs. the U.S., is that U.S. standard ball valves are taper thread whereas BSP ball valves (basically, whole rest of the world) are parallel thread.


A U.S. NPT tapered thread ball valve will engage less than 4 threads on an NPT tapered thread or NPS straight thread through hull fitting. An NPT/NPT joint will fit and seal, but such a joint is not designed for mechanical strength, which requires a deep engagement of the threads. And you should never screw a male straight fitting into a female taper fitting, so you can't use the typical U.S. NPT ball valves on typical NPS through hull fittings. So Jedi is right -- on his side of the Atlantic. See: https://livingproofmag.com/npt-vs-nps-fitting/



In Europe it's different -- the BSP ball valves are BSPP female parallel thread, designed to engage properly with the BSPT male taper thread through hull fittings, and they screw right down and are quite strong, plenty strong enough according to the engineers who design all the best European yachts, who I daresay know more than any of us. BSPT threads have a different geometry from NPT threads -- 55 instead of 60 degrees. The BSPP/BSPT combination doesn't self-seal -- you have to use sealant. But it's officially approved and mechanically strong. Note that while BSPP parallel thread female fittings are compatible with BSPT taper thread male fittings, the reverse is not true.



I think this is the origin of this continental difference of opinion. I would not screw a typical U.S. NPT female ball valve onto a typical NPS through hull fitting -- that would be dangerous. Note however that Groco makes through hull fittings with "combination" threads which they say are ok to use with NPT female ball valves.

[Bowdrie]

The above post by Dockhead make some excellent points regarding thread engagement and the inherent weakness as well as sealing issues that can occur.
Not directly related to seacocks, but to smaller size pipe fittings;
On a motor yacht that had its fuel tanks replaced I was tasked with assembling new fuel delivery/return manifolds of 3/8ths pipe size.
Two tanks, two engines, generator, dual Racors, with all sorts of valves/fittings to allow all sorts of flow combinations.
It was quite a pile of parts to make-up two manifolds.
Everything was assembled with a Permatex product that was approved for diesel use according to the MSD.
Both manifolds leaked, taken apart and redone, more leaks, just in different fittings.
In exasperation I took everything apart again and carefully cleaned each fitting.
Checking the parts and returning to the supplier I found that the assortment of valves/nipples/ells/street ells/couplings/pipe-to-flare adaptors, et all, had come from FIVE different countries.
So, bought a brand new tap/die with precision ground threads, made by the same company and proceeded to completely go over every single thread both male/female.
When I was done their was quite a little pile of brass shavings.
When all was re-assembled, no more leaks.
I offer this as a reminder that sometimes not all is as it seems with NPT and in this case the sealant and assembly torque were not to blame.

[pr2501]

Hello.
I am working on others project also. So finally I managed to get the tool and I am starting. In atached pictures you my see new info.

So. I was trying to disamble it, but all is rotating together.
What is the way to procede

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by pr2501

Hello.
I am working on others project also. So finally I managed to get the tool and I am starting. In atached pictures you my see new info.

So. I was trying to disamble it, but all is rotating together.
What is the way to procede

Not sure what you are attempting to do by disassembling the valve body. Put the 3 bolts back into the base. Then go to the outside of the hull and insert a tool to back out the thruhull. A better tool (if the proper tool isn't available) is a deep socket that matches the ID of the thruhill with slots gound into it. Then you can put a breaker bar on it and unwind the thruhull out of the seacock.

[Manateeman]

Dear original poster. Your profile doesn’t include info on your vessel, age, where you sail...sometimes useful to those who want to respond.
Our first question is simple. Why do you want to reseal, or remove or disassemble.
Looks like Groco . Maybe our favorite flanged adaptor/ ball valve combo.
Changing the ball valve on a flanged adaptor is pretty straightforward.
If it’s a flanged sea cock, the method has been discussed in depth before as well.

We completely disagree never changing the thru hull...the mushroom...is “dangerous”. Well, never is a long long time. We’ve inspected silicon bronze Apollo Flanged seacocks on a glass boat we built 40 years ago and the valve was a bit “ stiff” to open after 20 years closed ...in the water...but it showed no issues.
You can grind the thru hull off a properly done flanged adaptor...coral can do this...but you won’t sink like the supported plastics.
We would never install plastic, Marelon or unflanged seacocks in any vessel.
Our engineering standard is Ice Bear Proof.
The manatee crew have 60 years as professional boatbuilders. Just our opinion.
Captain Mark and crew.

[pr2501]

I need reseal the hole of the bout where trough hull is attached to the boat.

Sorry for not being clear.

What is the right direction of rotation? I am not 100% sure it is opposite of clock rotation.

I will insert my personal info now in my profile.

[pr2501]

Ok. All 5 are out. Thank you.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by pr2501

Hello
I have attached my sailing boat through hull picture.
Pleas I need info what kind/brand of valve it is.
I need this info because I want do remove it to reseal all.

Thank you

Good notes follow your OP.

Note for everyone. That tiny NPT plug can be removed and replaced with a grease zerk. I found 100% SS Zerks. With the valve open you can pump the cavity between the seals full of grease. Exercise the valve and regrease as necessary. You will be amazed at the improvement in operation.

Really old valves can be disassembled as noted by others. Seals can be obtained. We dipped our parts in muriatic acid briefly with quick rinse. They look like new. If the ball is eroded on the seawater side either replace the ball or turn it 180.

[reflectionsv37]

The yellow handle, assuming it has been replaced, tells me it's an Apollo. The 8118 I can see printed on the side probably identifies it as a model 78-118-01 1" flange valve.

https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=3359116

[Bowdrie]

In the PDF for the Apollo seacocks it states:

"Seal replacement is not recommended. Replace the Marine valve if unacceptable leakage occur".

[tsenator]

Originally Posted by bcboomer

"Also any North American builder that list ABYC cert will be using flanged seacocks".

What North American builders list ABYC certification? I can't find any and AFIK there is no such thing as an ABYC certified boat builder.

Trudesign ball valves comply with ABYC and don't have flanges.

I think there are more than a few 'North American builders' that are ABYC compliant -->. (Also Trudesign is ABYC complaint through the use of 'collars' instead of flanges - does the same thing)

"Many — but not all — boats are required to meet a set of minimum manufacturing regulations established by the U.S. Coast Guard. In the U.S., NMMA Certification goes beyond the minimum USCG standards to ensure adherence to the American Boat & Yacht Council (ABYC) Standards.

Manufacturers of NMMA Certified boats benefit from:

Assurance their boats meet the industry standards for the United States (ABYC Standards)" https://www.nmma.org/certification/boats/benefits

For instance -->

"All Catalina’s larger than 30 feet are built to robust standards including: rated CE category A Ocean, NMMA Yacht Certified Program, and follow all applicable ABYC American Boat and Yacht Council construction standards" https://masseyyacht.com/this-history-of-catalina/