Improving one refrigeration compressor's performance

[Richard Kollmann]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Richard, you keep making this claim even though those that have one of these systems on their boat repeatedly point out that their experience is contrary to your claims. You appear to choose to ignore their performance reports, why is this so?

Bob, The facts are with the thermodynamics and how to manage available energy they are not my facts. If a boater is satisfied with their refrigeration and have a on board power grid to support it what more could they ask for. The average boater is smarter than you think. I would also like to remind you of the many companies offering eutectic evaporators in the past their are only very few today powered by small 12 volt compressors. Five or six boaters favorable comments on small systems is not much of a marketing tool. Moist boaters want something more than a beer cooler.













the

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

Bob, The facts are with the thermodynamics and how to manage available energy they are not my facts. If a boater is satisfied with their refrigeration and have a on board power grid to support it what more could they ask for. The average boater is smarter than you think. I would also like to remind you of the many companies offering eutectic evaporators in the past their are only very few today powered by small 12 volt compressors.












the

Richard, I am well aware how smart the average boater is, I am one. I also note that you have failed to answer the very simple question as to how you continually insist that these systems cannot perform when multiple boaters have reported that they do in fact perform as the manufacturer's have advertised. Are they all misinformed, lying or could the problem lie elsewhere?

[Richard Kollmann]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Richard, I am well aware how smart the average boater is, I am one. I also note that you have failed to answer the very simple question as to how you continually insist that these systems cannot perform when multiple boaters have reported that they do in fact perform as the manufacturer's have advertised. Are they all misinformed, lying or could the problem lie elsewhere?

Why not question the technical facts I present? Or how they are not correct in operation of your system. I have never commented on it or other Ozefreeze units.

[wsmurdoch]

It would be nice if some third party organization (Cruising World, Practical Sailor, SCCA, etc.) would undertake a head to head comparison of small marine refrigeration systems currently on the market... a study similar to that done by Cruising World in 1995. I recommend taking some time to read that well planned and well executed study as a break from the current muck slinging.

https://web.archive.org/web/20061103...d/coldfact.htm

[Richard Kollmann]

Originally Posted by wsmurdoch

It would be nice if some third party organization (Cruising World, Practical Sailor, SCCA, etc.) would undertake a head to head comparison of small marine refrigeration systems currently on the market... a study similar to that done by Cruising World in 1995. I recommend taking some time to read that well planned and well executed study as a break from the current muck slinging.

https://web.archive.org/web/20061103...d/coldfact.htm

wsmurdoch, Thanks for reminding me of this old magazine refrigeration study where refrigeration presidents worked together for a better product. Instead of permuting the industry as a group. Now it is sometimes just a I GOT YOU game that has driven away the true experts. We lost another experienced refrigerant adviser last week do to poster failing to focus on the problem in thread.

My figures used in that study of energy consumption I still used today on designs for tropical weather cruising, But today I provide a correction factor so boater can always adjust expected refrigeration energy requirement based on cruising area climates.

[OzeLouie]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

Richard, I am well aware how smart the average boater is, I am one. I also note that you have failed to answer the very simple question as to how you continually insist that these systems cannot perform when multiple boaters have reported that they do in fact perform as the manufacturer's have advertised. Are they all misinformed, lying or could the problem lie elsewhere?

Bob, its a credibility issue and you're so right boaters are very switched on and look for recommendations, and seek factual, credible data from someone who has hands on experience in the industry. Not someone who waffles on trying to side track threads with irrelevant nonsense that is never supported by any data and refuses to answer questions.
Anyone can requote info gleaned from others to make themselves look impressive but without actual hands on experience then there is little if any credibility as the basic fundamentals of refrigeration are obviously not understood.

I have a close friend who is a top surgeon and during my RMIT days I 'learnt' a lot about his profession, but let me give you a tip: If you're on the surgeons 'chopping block and you see me coming at you with a scalpel, RUN

And as for that other nonsense regards popularity of eutectic systems, what a joke! Until 2019 we manufactured both cyclic and eutectic but as a result of extensive testing we now only manufacture eutectic, the reasons being obvious. We are now producing more than ever, manufactured in batches of 48! Pic taken last Tuesday:

[Richard Kollmann]

This thread began by suggesting someone try resetting thermostat to see if compressor performance might improve its performance. What has that to do with your personal credibility.
It looks more like from many frequent responses to my posts you want to harm my credibility. The good thing is your father's products are selling well based on his last mail to me and the picture you posted will help sell more unit.

My response to Bob was he like you does not want to question facts others might offer the trick is to side track the thread avoiding any possibility fact that might be correct.

[rgleason]

Thanks Stu for the excellent summary. Now we can move forward.

[rgleason]

I understand from the moderators that commercial members are barred from starting threads. Therefore it is the user's who should be starting good threads with practical and useful topics. Hopefully the commercial members will contribute their expertise in posts.

Since this thread is pretty well spent, I suggest that users start good new threads for ref topics.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by rgleason

I understand from the moderators that commercial members are barred from starting threads. Therefore it is the user's who should be starting good threads with practical and useful topics. Hopefully the commercial members will contribute their expertise in posts.

Since this thread is pretty well spent, I suggest that users start good new threads for ref topics.

The problem with barring commercial members in the refrigeration area is that they are the individuals who more likely are aware of what the issues are.

In the evaporator plate v eutectic tank issue the major protagonists are Richard Kollman an individual with a long history in the pleasure vessel refrigeration service sphere and Ozylou, and formerly Ozypete, who have a background in pleasure vessel refrigerator manufacture. In some ways that's an ideal set of protagonist, one with a vast experience in installing and servicing and a second a successful manufacturer with an established record of innovation.

When Richard and Lou manage to keep themselves from slipping into personal demonization and vilification they impart a good lot of interesting and informative information to all our benefits and one hopes that if they, the protagonists, can avoid arousing the ire of the moderators so that they don't close the threads we, the ignorant plebes, will eventually learn enough to enable us to draw out own informed conclusions on the subjects under discussion.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

The problem with barring commercial members in the refrigeration area is that they are the individuals who more likely are aware of what the issues are.

No one is seeking to bar commercial members.
But when one member starts multiple threads that:

• repeat the same claims,
• are essentially thinly veiled adverts for the type of refrigeration they sell,
• are basically repeats of the same thinly veiled advertising their father posted three years ago, and
• have a user name that thinly veils their company name (just like their father did)

it's obvious why there are constraints on "Marine Service Providers" starting threads.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

This thread began by suggesting someone try resetting thermostat to see if compressor performance might improve its performance. What has that to do with your personal credibility.
It looks more like from many frequent responses to my posts you want to harm my credibility. The good thing is your father's products are selling well based on his last mail to me and the picture you posted will help sell more unit.

My response to Bob was he like you does not want to question facts others might offer the trick is to side track the thread avoiding any possibility fact that might be correct.

Sadly Richard you don't seem to get it, you persist in the claim that small 12 volt compressor's cannot provide the ability to freeze down a eutetic refrigeration system and at best they are a cycling cold plate running many times a day, a position refuted by those that actually own and operate one. They have reported cycling once or twice a day for relatively short periods and long term satisfaction with their chosen products, not just one manufacturers offering but other's variations as well.
To paraphrase a US judge in his summation of a recient high profile claim before him "saying it is so does not make it so".

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by StuM

No one is seeking to bar commercial members.
But when one member starts multiple threads that:

• repeat the same claims,
• are essentially thinly veiled adverts for the type of refrigeration they sell,
• are basically repeats of the same thinly veiled advertising their father posted three years ago, and
• have a user name that thinly veils their company name (just like their father did)

it's obvious why there are constraints on "Marine Service Providers" starting threads.

Yep, all the above appears factual Stu, but we sure am getting a lot of good information whilst the battle rages.

My professional career was primarily as a technologist and one of the things I learned was that quiet often folks will give you a lot more information to win an argument than they would if you just asked nicely. Unfortunately one tends to make a lot more enemies that way than friends.

Now if we can just get Richard to accept that there may be some benefit to better matching the refrigerating process to the solar power generation process and Pete to the benefits of TXV valves as the best tool to achieve optimum evaporator efficiency we might make some progress.

[rgleason]

RaymondR
Please explain what you know about these valves

"...benefits of TXV valves as the best tool to achieve optimum evaporator efficiency "

Thanks

[rgleason]

"matching the refrigerating process to the solar power generation process"

Why just solar, what about other sources of energy?