Another reason why Eutectic Plates are less desirable than Standard Refrigerator

[Typhoon]

[QUOTE=Richard Kollmann;2637949]

Originally Posted by OzePete

A closed mind means your you are unreceptive or even interested in the industry you will be competing against. The Cool Blue eutectic plate system has set the standard for small holding plate 12 volt refrigeration. It is maintainable locally anywhere in the world without contacting the manufacturer.

Hi Richard

Since you mentioned it, our systems is easily serviced as well any were in the world . We do not use any proprietary components our systems consist of Danfoss , Parker and Eaton/Aeroquip off the shelf components . Any service tech will be familiar with our system design and will able to repair it easily if ever need be .

Regards John
www.coldeh.com

[CGirvan]

It seems to me that the original post has a valid point and for boats that are only used a day or 2 a week and the fridge shut down in between then a eutectic system may not be the most efficient. Like Pete said there's no one system that suits everybody.
On the other hand if you're living aboard and running the fridge 24/7 and have solar panels/wind generator (who doesn't) then the eutectic could be a better option.

[Boatguy30]

Richard has the data and the expertise. He's only looking to sell a few books an volunteer his knowledge. If you industry guys want to bully a nice old man......

[john61ct]

Personally I would only bother with a thousand dollar plus custom fridge setup if I needed to keep it running 24x7 over weeks at a time of cruising

A portable ARB or Engel is fine for temporary usage for shorter outings.

In this scenario

Originally Posted by CGirvan

for boats that are only used a day or 2 a week

a good cooler and a bag or block of ice works just fine

[Richard Kollmann]

Sorry, I just fond out that the links to pictures of the different manufacturers eutectic plates opened up did not appear on your computer. I will see if Bootsn can find out why.

[OzePete]

[QUOTE=Richard Kollmann;2637949]

Originally Posted by OzePete

A closed mind means your you are unreceptive or even interested in the industry you will be competing against. The Cool Blue eutectic plate system has set the standard for small holding plate 12 volt refrigeration. It is maintainable locally anywhere in the world without contacting the manufacturer.

YES, I definately close my mind to anyone who provides important data or advice that is incorrect. Sorry about that, but anyone who continues to believe in an adviser who steadfastly stands by incorrect information, is a fool and I don't need any help to go there!!

BTW the other post highlighted above here was not mine!!

Cheers OzePete

[Richard Kollmann]

[QUOTE=OzePete;2638388]

Originally Posted by Richard Kollmann

YES, I definately close my mind to anyone who provides important data or advice that is incorrect. Sorry about that, but anyone who continues to believe in an adviser who steadfastly stands by incorrect information, is a fool and I don't need any help to go there!!

BTW the other post highlighted above here was not mine!!

Cheers OzePete

I certainly agree with you Pete.

[john61ct]

This is *almost* entertaining.

It would really be enlightening if an objective third party would moderate a debate between you two - require sources, maybe help the community verify the truth of individual syllogisms building up to the main point of contention.

As well as "down translating" the technical stuff, I know for myself I don't even understand what it is you're disagreeing about.

Other than the most general:

"eutectic holding plate systems are (are not) inherently and significantly more efficient than thin evaporative plate systems, even disregarding their ability to capture free/excess power produced"

[newhaul]

[QUOTE=Richard Kollmann;2637949]

Originally Posted by OzePete

A closed mind means your you are unreceptive or even interested in the industry you will be competing against. The Cool Blue eutectic plate system has set the standard for small holding plate 12 volt refrigeration. It is maintainable locally anywhere in the world without contacting the manufacturer.

yep but if I call Rich at 0300 pacific time he will usually answer the phone. But its also 3 am for him to so some leeway is expected.

[TJ D]

I mourn the day I replaced my holding plate system with standard evaporators. Worst thing I ever did on my domestic systems.

Here's why- and why this isn't discussed more is really a mystery to me.

At anchor or underway with the holding plate system, I would run the engine for an hour or 90 minutes in the morning-charge batteries, make water, etc.

During that time, my system would draw 40 amps or so (the alternator could easily pick up the load with no reduction in battery charging), and the freezer would get cold as hell, around 0 to +5F on average. During longer runs, it would get down to as low as -10f.

And then the thing would shut off and not run again for many, many hours.

In real-life amp hour use terms, this cost me nothing. The fridge would kick on and off through the day for a few minutes, but the big eater of power was taking very little from the actual energy budget with daily engine use.

Fast forward to today-I've got 2 evaporator systems installed, and while they're lower draw, the damned things run a hell of a lot. So, I've got this semi-continuous drain going on 24/7. My batteries are discharging at a much higher real rate than they ever did with the Eutetic system.

I suppose if I added a few hundred more watts of solar (currently 400), it would bother me less, but on cloudy days, I'm watching things drain at a much higher rate than I like.

This is the real advantage of a holding plate system. You can put a lot of BTU's in the bank when you've got an excess of power, whether from the engine, the dock (I would often run my freezer WAY down on shorepower before heading to anchor again), or alternatives.

So, while I'm not interested in getting geeky about it, I'd take a holding plate system any day of the week. When my current systems come out, I'll be switching back, 100%

No disrespect to evaporator proponents, just one guy's experience.

[TJ D]

BTW, some of you may remember my busted 134A freezer. I replaced it with a 404A unit from the same manufacturer (simplicity and cost reasons), and am much happier with the 404a unit, it's about 10 degrees colder and running less than before. It was a good call.

[john61ct]

Great info!

I think we have a consensus here that

where free / excess energy is available on a regular basis, **and** the fridge is in use for weeks at a time

eutectic holding plate systems reduce / replace the need for battery storage

and thus are superior strictly from an energy-efficiency POV.

The controversy is in the comparison of energy efficiency with thin-plate evaporative systems once that free/excess energy factor has been taken out of the equation.

And I would really like to see us make evidence-based progress toward either confirming Pete's test results, or modifying the framing conditions of those tests to be "more fair/realistic", whatever, but get away from distracting sniping and see if we can stick to objectivity.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Great info!

I think we have a consensus here that

where free / excess energy is available on a regular basis, **and** the fridge is in use for weeks at a time

eutectic holding plate systems reduce / replace the need for battery storage

and thus are superior strictly from an energy-efficiency POV.

The controversy is in the comparison of energy efficiency with thin-plate evaporative systems once that free/excess energy factor has been taken out of the equation.

And I would really like to see us make evidence-based progress toward either confirming Pete's test results, or modifying the framing conditions of those tests to be "more fair/realistic", whatever, but get away from distracting sniping and see if we can stick to objectivity.

john holding plates also hold a more consistent box temperature. When properly setup.
Especially when reloading with warm / warmish items.
Which also improves energy-efficiency. Renewable energy not withstanding.

[john61ct]

Yes, personally I don't need convincing either way.

I want to settle the above specific question For Science.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by TJ D

I mourn the day I replaced my holding plate system with standard evaporators. Worst thing I ever did on my domestic systems.

Here's why- and why this isn't discussed more is really a mystery to me.

At anchor or underway with the holding plate system, I would run the engine for an hour or 90 minutes in the morning-charge batteries, make water, etc.

During that time, my system would draw 40 amps or so (the alternator could easily pick up the load with no reduction in battery charging), and the freezer would get cold as hell, around 0 to +5F on average. During longer runs, it would get down to as low as -10f.

And then the thing would shut off and not run again for many, many hours.

In real-life amp hour use terms, this cost me nothing. The fridge would kick on and off through the day for a few minutes, but the big eater of power was taking very little from the actual energy budget with daily engine use.

Fast forward to today-I've got 2 evaporator systems installed, and while they're lower draw, the damned things run a hell of a lot. So, I've got this semi-continuous drain going on 24/7. My batteries are discharging at a much higher real rate than they ever did with the Eutetic system.

I suppose if I added a few hundred more watts of solar (currently 400), it would bother me less, but on cloudy days, I'm watching things drain at a much higher rate than I like.

This is the real advantage of a holding plate system. You can put a lot of BTU's in the bank when you've got an excess of power, whether from the engine, the dock (I would often run my freezer WAY down on shorepower before heading to anchor again), or alternatives.

So, while I'm not interested in getting geeky about it, I'd take a holding plate system any day of the week. When my current systems come out, I'll be switching back, 100%

No disrespect to evaporator proponents, just one guy's experience.

I also don't understand why this isn't focused on more, it's the real world, stored excess energy. Yer, sure it's been mentioned a few times but it tends to get brushed over.
Everytime you motor you have excess energy, everytime I make water I have excess energy, every afternoon when the sun's out I have excess energy, this all results in a cold fridge from utilised excess energy! Isn't this the number one plus that a eutectic system has over a evaporator plate.