USCG Six Pack license sea time fraud

[StuM]

Originally Posted by muttnik

Fortunately British yachties are happy to be "boaters" and would never call themselves "Captain".

The correct designation according to their "six pack" license is "Operator"

[slug]

Originally Posted by muttnik

See here for what you can do professionally with a commercially endorsed yachtmaster certificate on British Flagged vessels at least:

https://www.rya.org.uk/courses-train...ompetence.aspx

...and here for details of the commercial endorsement:
https://www.rya.org.uk/courses-train...orsements.aspx

However...


I can, however, vouch for the fact that it is entirely possible to obtain a commercially endorsed yachtmaster certificate without the faintest clue about US-specific flag etiquette. Fortunately British yachties are happy to be "boaters" and would never call themselves "Captain".

I must admit that the British system is far superior at turning interested amateurs into competent seaman

[Dsanduril]

Originally Posted by StuM

The correct designation according to their "six pack" license is "Operator"

And higher grades as "master", there is no "captain" MMC.

Nevertheless, the USCG website refers to OUPV (and other small vessel credentials) as "Charter Boat Captain".

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/nmc/charter_boat_captain/

A Charter Boat Captain commands a small vessel as a master, captain, or skipper and may contain a sailing endorsement for sailing vessels and/or a commercial towing endorsement for vessels engaged in assistance towing.

The tabs below will help you in applying to become a Charter Boat Captain. The type of credential you receive is based upon your experience which includes the following:....

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dsanduril

And higher grades as "master", there is no "captain" MMC.

Nevertheless, the USCG website refers to OUPV (and other small vessel credentials) as "Charter Boat Captain".

Yep, therein lies a large part of the issue. There is confusion between the verb "to captain" and the title/honorific "Captain".



When you are in control of a vessel, you are its captain. When you are not in actual control of a vessel you are not a "Captain".

[Neptune's Gear]

I Freely admit I dont know much about the US cert system.

But I have RYA Yachtmaster with commercial endorsement, NZ Master Yacht (200 ton, <24m), and NZ SCO (Skipper coastal and offshore, 200 Ton or 24m, power vessel). Part of the requirements for the RYA commercial ticket were STCW certs. I would say that the RYA cert and testing was, IMO, much more through than the others. The practical test was actually fun! It includes a "blind" navigation exercise with only a compass, log and a depth finder, where you are kept below, so cant see out. I did this in the upper Auckland Harbour, with pretty strong tides and channels....
The RYA Yachtmaster commercial ticket is the most requested in the international yachting world, was a requirement for my NZ master yacht <24m ticket, and is a step towards the superyacht tickets.
You could get some tickets without much knowledge, but in my experience you wont get RYA Yachtmaster. The practical test will show you up....

[Cadence]

I just love those with a six pack preceding there name with Captain. I guess if the egp trip works?

[BigBoater917]

Originally Posted by StuM

And yet we often see people here who claim to hold a USCG OUPV certification but quote the "Law of Tonnage" and talk about a "burdened vessel" (often the same ones who call themselves "Capt Xxxxxx" and/or claim to be a "USCG Captain" ).

Sir, you are spot on here. I avoid anyone with Captain in their regular mail, on the mailbox, or user name. I had a crusty bosun tell me that experience was not having to tell someone how much experience you had. It was a valuable lesson.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by BigBoater917

Sir, you are spot on here. I avoid anyone with Captain in their regular mail, on the mailbox, or user name. I had a crusty bosun tell me that experience was not having to tell someone how much experience you had. It was a valuable lesson.

Amen to this. I rarely use my designation outside of some obvious places where the credential is helpful. I do list it on my professional non-marine resume as it's often a conversation starter and I'm proud I earned it I list it as "USCG 100T Master (civilian designation)" so as to avoid confusion with a military rank that took so much more than a test and days at sea to earn.

[finnegan]

Thank you so much to all the respondents here.

To clarify a few things:

1) The reason I can't use a skipper from the charter base is that we want to use a base in another country. I need a qualified skipper who can pass a US background check.

2) I am comfortable being the skipper for my family when we charter. However, I think there are, justifiably, additional burdens or care required when other people's kids are involved. Having a qualified skipper doesn't remove all risk, however, not having one would be catastrophic to my savings and career if something went wrong.

I get the impression from the responses that yes the sea time is often fraudulently documented. I became curious because a saw 3 separate wanna be youtube stars go from zero to hero in a year 100 ton licenses while apparently still working a 9-5 land based job. Reminds me of the scandal a few years ago in India where is was discovered that several airline captains had obtained credentials without the requisite flight time and experience. It came out when a first officer reported his captain after 3 hard landings in a row.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-south-asia-12857742

[StuM]

Originally Posted by finnegan

I get the impression from the responses that yes the sea time is often fraudulently documented. I became curious because a saw 3 separate wanna be youtube stars go from zero to hero in a year 100 ton licenses while apparently still working a 9-5 land based job. Reminds me of the scandal a few years ago in India where is was discovered that several airline captains had obtained credentials without the requisite flight time and experience.

Reminds me of someone that used to post here who called himself a "USCG Captain" and who posted his seatime list on his website.


He had numerous entries where he claimed things like moving a boat from one berth to another in the same marina as 5 hours/1 day seatime

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by StuM

Reminds me of someone that used to post here who called himself a "USCG Captain" and who posted his seatime list on his website.


He had numerous entries where he claimed things like moving a boat from one berth to another in the same marina as 5 hours/1 day seatime

Stu, I don't recall specifics, but it seems there is an amount of time that qualifies as a day. It took a long time to row his pram from one dock to another.

[rasher]

I had a fellow club member approach me last year and ask me to sign off on some of his "sea time" and generally vouch for his seamanship and skills. I've never sailed with him and only know the rumors from others of his lack of skills.

Also, I'm not particularly interested in committing fraud on a federal document and risking my own good name.

[seacap]

It’s sad. In the good ol days you needed to know the material to pass the test. The sea schools back then taught you the material, not which questions would be used.. Who ever filed the Freedom of Information suit to release the questions did a huge disservice to the marine community.

[Nicholson58]

It is very difficult to acquire sufficient sea time on the Great Lakes and other northern places. One can presume these captains had to stretch the truth a bit unless they worked daily on a charter or ferry. The valid hours and requirements are based on a ticket for commercial operation and are a bit tough for the average private owner. It would be nice to see a division for qualifying competent private owners for non-commercial operation, like a souped up drivers license. The current system does not test the ability to steer, anchor, manage. Even living aboard for four years in the Caribbean, it is difficult to get qualifying hours since we spend a lot of time on anchor. That said, I would rate my skills set on the high side.

[Bbolino]

Unfortunately, most of what is said here is correct
You don't need a license to move a boat or carry passengers - just passengers that pay you (think about that for a minute)
The USCG test for OUPV and 100 ton is the same and is anything but easy. I would challenge any captain to take the navigation and rules of the road portion right now
Sea time is easily falsified - I had 2 "captains" volunteer to sign off on whatever time I needed
There are many captains who cant run a boat, let alone deal with trouble at sea
There is no requirement to actually know how to operate a vessel

One of the unfortunate truths of licensing regimes is that they are designed to protect the people who have the license and not the people they ostensibly protect. Keep the competition low.

Most 6 pack captains are good fisherman and lousy mariners - the evidence of this is the accidents and injuries that take place on charter fishing boats that result from poorly operated or maintained vessels.

360 days of idling around a sheltered bay isn't the same as navigating a tricky inlet. i would rather travel with a person who has made 10 trips up and down the AICW than one who has 350 days idling around the upper Chesapeake Bay in good weather

Unfortunately the licensing system tries but fails at recognizing that.

Keep the test but make it more current and relevant, change the sea days to something reasonable and make them be time running a boat not as a dock hand, and give a driving test. With todays virtual reality capabilities you don't even need a boat.