ASA or RYA

[Time2Go]

Hi All
It's time for me to get some official certs
And was wondering what the collective opions are of
ASA v RYA
Specifically 101,102,104. Vs Dayskipper
I already know how to sail but want these for two reasons
1. Chartering
2. Way of communicating skill level for crewing opportunities

Am also considering RYA coastal but might have to spread that over
Two summers because of time/cost
I already have enough sea miles and nights

Second question:
How do most skippers evaluate potential crew for passages?
Thanx

[benjiwoodboat]

My opinion is that RYA is a more respected certification. But I have no evidence to support that. I think the standardized classes run as a franchise leave a lot up to chance and quality varies greatly between instructors and courses. I'd consider who is instructing and how broad their experience is durst before I looked at what parent organization they belong to. And perhaps the best courses might be those run by independent outfits.


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[LTDsailing]

At the level of ASA 101, 103, 104 / RYA Day Skipper they are both on par in my experience. The big difference is that RYA can lead to a commercial endorsement where ASA does not. So, if your eventual goal is to operate commercially then definitely go RYA. If your goal is to sail recreationally then either one will do just fine.

As benjiwoodboat said, if you are interested in learning more about sailing, the most important thing is who your instructor is, not which association has endorsed them.
To your second question, I usually want to know my crew and have sailed with them a bit before heading off on a long passage with them. I need to know they have the basic sailing skills necessary to stand a watch on their own. Also look at how well they can take direction. Most of all, I look for people with a positive attitude who I know won't drive me crazy on a long passage!

Hope that helps.

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[HappyMdRSailor]

Geezo... it bugs me when somebody posts a relatively simple or "answerable" question, and it takes 2 days to start getting replies... We need an AUTOBUMP" feature!

Anyway... As RTD pointed out, those are the differences that I think too... You may be tempted to challenge 101/103... but if you have the time, I'll bet you learn something that makes you really glad you didn't...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Time2Go

Hi All

It's time for me to get some official certs

And was wondering what the collective opions are of

ASA v RYA

Specifically 101,102,104. Vs Dayskipper

I already know how to sail but want these for two reasons

1. Chartering

2. Way of communicating skill level for crewing opportunities



Am also considering RYA coastal but might have to spread that over

Two summers because of time/cost

I already have enough sea miles and nights



Second question:

How do most skippers evaluate potential crew for passages?

Thanx

As a general rule the RYA is more widely recognised then the ASA. Also the RYA YM is significantly more advanced then anything the ASA does.

Note that commercial endorsement only applies to British registers yachts used commercially. It has no specific international recognition.

[belizesailor]

Originally Posted by LTDsailing

At the level of ASA 101, 103, 104 / RYA Day Skipper they are both on par in my experience. The big difference is that RYA can lead to a commercial endorsement where ASA does not. So, if your eventual goal is to operate commercially then definitely go RYA. If your goal is to sail recreationally then either one will do just fine.

As benjiwoodboat said, if you are interested in learning more about sailing, the most important thing is who your instructor is, not which association has endorsed them.
To your second question, I usually want to know my crew and have sailed with them a bit before heading off on a long passage with them. I need to know they have the basic sailing skills necessary to stand a watch on their own. Also look at how well they can take direction. Most of all, I look for people with a positive attitude who I know won't drive me crazy on a long passage!

Hope that helps.

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+1. ASA is recreational level training only. If you think you may want to go pro in the future, which you don't mention, then that might tip the scale to RYA. Recreational level is similar and both widley recognized.

[Sailing Cowboy]

You best look at International Yacht Training (IYT) instead of RYA. I have included a link that compares both. IYT also includes the ICC that your starting to hear more of and will here allot of in the near future. IYT is the most accepted worldwide.

http://www.goproutila.com/iyt-rya-differences

http://www.iytworld.com

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[krafthaus]

If you are wanting this to charter, ASA should be fine. I did 101/103 in Marco Island, FL and 104 in Biloxi, MS. Glad that I did it with 2 different instructors because they each had their strong points and a different slant on the training.

This gave us enough on the resume that a charter company let us charter a 35' Catalina. We were out for 3 days with another couple. From there we worked our way up to 40+ monos and 40+ cats.

Basically, you need a resume to show you know what you are doing and have the experience. With your prior knowledge, you should have a good resume with that and the ASA to get started on charter or as crew.

As far as picking crew, we have been joined by good friends and they've learned along with us. Best is folks who are interested and fun to be with and our friends are both of those.

Best of Luck!

[TS2015]

I have delivered all 3 training schemes and each one has pros and cons, I believe the ASA scheme was originally based on the RYA syllabus so there is some crossover there, my main observation would be that the course is only as good as the instructor who delivers it!

The IYT has a structured training program for its recreational and professional instructors, they must hold a professional mariners license and the schools are regularly audited to make sure standards are adhered to, IMHO the ASA and RYA schemes are very good for recreational sailors but if you wish to work within the industry the IYT has the edge, the Master of Yachts scheme needs no further commercial endorsement, it may cost a tad more but you get what you pay for, I see a very good depth of knowledge by students who graduate through the MOY scheme.

[Svanen]

For cruising purposes, I second LTDsailing's comment that either ASA or RYA should be sufficient.

As a means of communicating your skills for crewing opportunities, my impression is that Day Skipper is more widely recognized and would probably have more impact. That said, it is a pretty basic course completion certificate … at that level, opportunities are more likely to be based more on whatever personal contacts you may have.

Bottom line, it probably doesn't matter a great deal.

Regarding the 'RYA vs IYT' thread hijack, they have their differences but as a practical matter there is really not much to choose between the two.

• the RYA is a British non-profit organization founded 1875, whereas IYT is a Canadian for-profit company founded 1998.
• the RYA allows people with appropriate experience to bypass its training courses and challenge the YM examination, whereas IYT requires candidates to go through its full suite of training courses before being examined. Some people argue that the RYA's flexibility does not ensure sufficient consistency. Others claim that IYT's inflexibility is motivated by its profit-making nature.
• As Tortolasailing said, IYT includes both the STCW Basic Safety course, and its own Professional Practices and Social Responsibility course, as part of its theory package required to gain the MoY Limited. The RYA does not require those courses to gain the YM Offshore, but they are necessary, and available, as 'add-ons' to obtain an MCA commercial endorsement. In practice, the training and ultimate qualifications are identical and should cost essentially the same.
• Both the RYA and IYT derive their ability to issue commercial certificates of competency from the British Maritime and Coastguard Agency, and are considered equal by the MCA.

At the end of the day, you pays your money and makes your choice. I've known approximately the same number of RYA YMs and IYT MoYs, and both systems seem capable of issuing credible professional yachting certificates.

[OldFrog75]

I only have experience with the ASA program. The 101, 103, and 104 covered a great deal of material so it's hard for me to imagine the RYA program being more comprehensive - especially if one were to add the 105, 106, and 108.

Perhaps someone could enlighten me while we're on the topic.

[alctel]

What are peoples thoughts on the CYA, just to stir the pot a bit?

[Svanen]

CYA cruising scheme is fine, certainly better than nothing. Much of the material is either American or American-derived, so I expect that it is probably similar to the ASA.

The first stage of the CYA cruising scheme, i.e. CYA Basic Cruising, is almost invariably taught on smallish keelboats rather than live-aboard cruising yachts. All RYA courses are taught on decent-sized yachts.

A fair portion of the CYA Intermediate and Advanced courses is concerned with boat ownership issues. The RYA cruising scheme pretty much restricted to seamanship and navigation.

The RYA courses, both practical and theoretical, emphasize tidal streams and related planning. That subject is only briefly covered in CYA cruising courses.

The above differences reflect the different environments the respective schemes are taught in. British yachtsmen sail in waters dominated by tides, and typically have to contend with relatively high wind. Some North American sailors are similarly situated but the majority are in relatively protected waters, i.e. the Great Lakes, Florida, California, etc.


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[Sailing Cowboy]

I have been through the CYA, ASA and IYT programs. I was a Lieutenant in the RCN as a training officer instructing instructors on both coasts in Halifax as well as Vancouver. Canada’s Navy has followed British Admiralty Standards when it comes to its curriculum and my opinion is it is the most complete given its depth of knowledge and long maritime history. I have reviewed & prepared curriculum that is beyond what any these programs offer. Reason being it was to a military standard. So my issue has more to do with some of the instructors teaching these programs as many have mentioned and I have witnessed firsthand. It’s one thing to know the material the organization puts out and it is another to be able to relay that information in an understandable theoretical and practical manner. Having said that, some programs offer a better educational platform and depth of knowledge. For the average recreational sailor, any of these programs are fine for local waters. To some experienced sailors with no certifications, they would probably find these boring and redundant but to the new sailor I do find them critical to a successful and safe start in cruising. The CYA and ASA are for profit just like IYT and the RYA. What I find with CYA and ASA is a severe lack of practical application on every level as well as a lack of depth of knowledge on certain important subjects. Yes there is a practical portion but it is short and usually crowded and it is covered very quickly. If you miss it or you don’t have a good understanding, no problem you still pass. Not really doing the student any good when it comes to collision regs, charts, lights, tides and currents does it?
Canada and United States citizens sail in waters dominated by tides and high seas. In fact, the longest coastline in the world I believe. A majority of sailors are not confined to the Great Lakes as was suggested but sail the Atlantic, Pacific, Arctic and the Gulf of Mexico. My intent was not to hijack a thread but to provide an intelligent answer to someone in need without all the marketing BS.

[Svanen]

Hello Cowboy,

Originally Posted by Sailing Cowboy

I was a Lieutenant in the RCN as a training officer instructing instructors on both coasts in Halifax as well as Vancouver. Canada’s Navy has followed British Admiralty Standards when it comes to its curriculum and my opinion is it is the most complete given its depth of knowledge and long maritime history. I have reviewed & prepared curriculum that is beyond what any these programs offer. Reason being it was to a military standard.

As a fellow former Lt(N), I fully agree that the Canadian navy's MARS training program was and is equal to any other navy's, and superior to most … especially in the 'old days' when we had a dedicated training squadron. And - not surprisingly, given the differences in resources - it is/was far superior to the training offered by all civilian yachting organizations.

Originally Posted by Sailing Cowboy

For the average recreational sailor, any of these programs are fine for local waters. To some experienced sailors with no certifications, they would probably find these boring and redundant but to the new sailor I do find them critical to a successful and safe start in cruising.

Agreed (or if not critical, at least quite useful).

Originally Posted by Sailing Cowboy

The CYA and ASA are for profit just like IYT and the RYA.

With respect, this is incorrect. The CYA (or Sail Canada, as it unfortunately styles itself these days) is a quasi-charity registered as an amateur athletic association (#122863087RR0001) with Revenue Canada, and I understand that RYA has similar status in the UK. I don't know about ASA (unlike CYA and RYA, it is not a ISAF national governing body: that honour is held by US Sailing).

Anyway, this issue is essentially unimportant, as I concede that the individual sailing schools that deliver the actual training for CYA, ASA, RYA, IYT et al. are almost all for-profit bodies: which was probably your intended point.

Speaking of ASA, I was interested to learn that its sail training program was expressly based upon the CYA Cruising Scheme, rather than the other way around as had I originally suspected.

Originally Posted by Sailing Cowboy

What I find with CYA and ASA is a severe lack of practical application on every level as well as a lack of depth of knowledge on certain important subjects. Yes there is a practical portion but it is short and usually crowded and it is covered very quickly. If you miss it or you don’t have a good understanding, no problem you still pass. Not really doing the student any good when it comes to collision regs, charts, lights, tides and currents does it?

Again, I agree with you. The courses are better than nothing, but still well short of the training required for a reasonably proficient mariner.

Originally Posted by Sailing Cowboy

Canada and United States citizens sail in waters dominated by tides and high seas. In fact, the longest coastline in the world I believe. A majority of sailors are not confined to the Great Lakes as was suggested but sail the Atlantic, Pacific, Arctic and the Gulf of Mexico.

I am aware that many Canadians and Americans sail in tidal waters and make offshore passages. Nevertheless, my sense is that the great number of Great Lakes sailors very substantially outnumber those regularly transiting (for example) Active Pass or the Bay of Fundy.

In any event, my point was that the CYA and ASA programs are primarily aimed at inland weekend cruisers: thus the relatively low emphasis on practical skills.