Which Power Catamaran ?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Intentional Drifter

As I recall, there were some serious powerplant/shaft problems with the Lagoons. I can't point to a specific link at the moment, but I do recall reading about it in several places.

While lots of people don't care for them, I've seen a fair number of Endeavor powercats on the US E. Coast. While their lines might not be for everyone, a couple of the owners I've talked with liked them a lot and said that you get a lot for your money.

If I were going to be looking at a powercat (and I'm not), I'd be looking for a PDQ 41. PDQ made great boats, high quality construction, designed and built to be an owner liveaboard, not a charter boat. After the Canadian company went under (through no fault of the product, just awful economic conditions), Pearson Composites bought the powercat side of the business. I don't know if they're actually making new ones, but they have a website at: Welcome to PDQ Yachts There are a couple of the originals listed on yachtworld.

ID

+1
......

[Koum]

Originally Posted by dirkdig

I have been looking for ages and i think there is a big opening in the global market for a production motor cat that is not a sailing hull type adoption.
A cat that has range and fuel storage to boot would be very popular.
Too many ugly adaptions around at present.
The sunreef power 70 and 60 ft cats are awesome but big $$$$$

Think you missed out a few $ signs ;-)

The choice definitely gets easier if you have a few spare million $'s lying around which alas I have not but we can all dream

[Intentional Drifter]

If you're looking for an ocean passagemaker under power, the choices start getting awful thin. Sure, it can "be done", as the Leopard 37 delivery skipper attested, but he had to go slow, make interim stops, and still used a lot of fuel. He didn't make a non-stop trans ocean crossing.

When you look at the power yachts that have done such journeys, you see names like Nordhavn and Dashew's FPB line of power yachts. I'm not seeing any of these power cats that you've mentioned.

Dashew's discussion on what he wanted in a trans ocean power yacht is worth reading. DashewOffshore.com - the serious cruising sailor's website

If you're also thinking about doing the Med - Asia run through the Red Sea on a routine basis, then one of the big advantages of a power cat (or mono, like Dashew's) is the ability to put the throttles down and get through at speed.

Of course, to carry out such a mission, you're talking some pretty serious coin.

ID

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Koum

I have to say that not having an internal second helm seems to be a big minus for the Leopard. It basically means that in terrible weather or rough seas you are going to have to be on the fly bridge bobbing up and down with a chance of being thrown overboard with no protection from the elements.

It would indicate to me that it is more designed as a fair weather boat or for coastal waters and not suited to hitting the open ocean at all as I really cannot see anyone wanting to be forced into having to stay on the flybridge in bad weather and choppy seas.

It also means someone will always have to be up there in emergencies as there will be little you can do from the saloon.

Have I misunderstood something here

Yes

Look at the the majority of flybridge monohulled powerboats, especially game boats and you will see that most dont have internal helm either, yet they manage fine.
I reckon they will get a rougher ride from up top as well.

The reality of the situation is, that on passage, if you actually want to make miles you will be doing 10knots or less, especially if there is a bit of chop so it's not as if you will be leaping off of waves and thrown around anywhere near as much as you imagine.

Seastate also dictates a 10knot speed most of the time, so you have to ask, why get a vessel that has or needs 600+hp (lagoon) with such a very short range.
The simple fact that the lagoon has these huge engines and appallingly low range dictates that it is no more than a coastal cruiser.

add: it is not hard to add engine controls and autopilot remote to the leopard, the space is certainly there for it.
I dont consider a wheel to be needed, I delivered a 50ft powercat to Vanuatu, steering wheel was never touched on the trip as autopilot was used on passage and for close quarters manoeuvring, engines were used for direction change.

[dacust]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Yes

Look at the the majority of flybridge monohulled powerboats, especially game boats and you will see that most dont have internal helm either, yet they manage fine.
I reckon they will get a rougher ride from up top as well.

...

Yeah, but then those aren't passagemakers. Many passage makers have ONLY an inside helm and no flybridge at all.

Don't get me wrong, for my style of cruising (Intracoastal and small offshore hops) I never use my inside helm at all. Always drive from the flybridge. On two trips of 1000 miles each, not once drove from the inside.

But if I was planning on passagemaking, I would not want a boat without an inside helm.

-dan

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by dacust

Always drive from the flybridge. On two trips of 1000 miles each, not once drove from the inside.

1000 miles in one hop sounds more like a like a passage than coastal cruise to me

Originally Posted by dacust

But if I was planning on passagemaking, I would not want a boat without an inside helm.

-dan

I believe I had that covered

add: it is not hard to add engine controls and autopilot remote to the leopard, the space is certainly there for it.
I dont consider an internal wheel to be needed, I delivered a 50ft powercat to Vanuatu, steering wheel was never touched on the trip as autopilot was used on passage and for close quarters manoeuvring, engines were used for direction change.

On that trip it was unfortunate that an outside helm wasn't available as the inside helm was a veritable hot spot to be during the day.
Thankfully it didn't rain during the trip as I imagine the inside helm position would be a humid hotbox as hatches would not be open for ventilation.

[dacust]

Originally Posted by cat man do

1000 miles in one hop sounds more like a like a passage than coastal cruise to me

...

Not in one hop. Intracoastal up and down the US East coast.

-dan

[Sand crab]

Manta 44 powercat for sale.
Catamarans for sale
I wonder about range.

[Koum]

Originally Posted by Intentional Drifter

If you're looking for an ocean passagemaker under power, the choices start getting awful thin. Sure, it can "be done", as the Leopard 37 delivery skipper attested, but he had to go slow, make interim stops, and still used a lot of fuel. He didn't make a non-stop trans ocean crossing.

When you look at the power yachts that have done such journeys, you see names like Nordhavn and Dashew's FPB line of power yachts. I'm not seeing any of these power cats that you've mentioned.

Dashew's discussion on what he wanted in a trans ocean power yacht is worth reading. DashewOffshore.com - the serious cruising sailor's website

If you're also thinking about doing the Med - Asia run through the Red Sea on a routine basis, then one of the big advantages of a power cat (or mono, like Dashew's) is the ability to put the throttles down and get through at speed.

Of course, to carry out such a mission, you're talking some pretty serious coin.

ID

Obviously in my ignorance I assumed I could coastline hug or be far enough offshore to go from the Med to Asia so I will have to accept that this would be too idealistic a proposition so I will just have to ship the boat between the two locations or just leave it in one spot. Shame because others have told me that doing sucha journey in this type of boat is not realistic.

I am astonished by the Leopard trans atlantic crossing report though and despite not doubting that it actually happened imagine that 95%+ of ordinary or even skilled seamen would fail to successfully complete that journey and guess that this trip described was more of a PR exercise and had a lot of financial and large company support behind it. They must also have had some decent weather too.

My conclusion therefore as I cant really afford a massive ocean goer is to abandon the idea of taking the boat myself between Asia and The Med.

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by Koum

My conclusion therefore as I cant really afford a massive ocean goer is to abandon the idea of taking the boat myself between Asia and The Med.

Just add sails.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Just add sails.

This vessel on page 1 ticks all the boxes
A truly stunning and capable vessel imho

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Koum

Obviously in my ignorance I assumed I could coastline hug or be far enough offshore to go from the Med to Asia so I will have to accept that this would be too idealistic a proposition

You do know of the Piracy issues through the main transit area?

I am astonished by the Leopard trans atlantic crossing report though and despite not doubting that it actually happened imagine that 95%+ of ordinary or even skilled seamen would fail to successfully complete that journey and guess that this trip described was more of a PR exercise and had a lot of financial and large company support behind it. They must also have had some decent weather too.

I dont see it as such an issue

People cross oceans all the time on smaller vessels than these, many of the "skippers" are lacking in what would be considered skills

Surely its not that hard to pick a 5 day weather window for a powered vessel to do it and really, what does a PR company and company support have to do with picking a weather window?

My conclusion therefore as I cant really afford a massive ocean goer is to abandon the idea of taking the boat myself between Asia and The Med.

Beaten before you started by your incorrect conclusions.

[Koum]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Just add sails.

Easier said than done unfortunately as I need ease of use:-(

How long would it take me to learn how to sail?

However I must admit that I do REALLY love the Lagoon 500 that friends own but its out of my price range and practically unsinkable even in the foulest and roughest of seas.

[Koum]

Originally Posted by cat man do

You do know of the Piracy issues through the main transit area?



I dont see it as such an issue

People cross oceans all the time on smaller vessels than these, many of the "skippers" are lacking in what would be considered skills

Surely its not that hard to pick a 5 day weather window for a powered vessel to do it and really, what does a PR company and company support have to do with picking a weather window?


Beaten before you started by your incorrect conclusions.

The point was that the Leopard 37 going transatlantic was a non real event and used as a Public Relations exercise by Leopard to try and make out that their boats could do such a crossing easily in order to promote sales of their boat.

I very much doubt it is as easy as they would like people to believe and that if an ordinary person tried it they would be likely to fail to complete the journey.

It also demonstrates how incredibly dangerous it would be if you should encounter any bad weather at all if you had to sit on that flybridge with nasty large waves all around you as any movement in the boat is going to be exaggerated the higher up you are.

I also question how accurately you can predict a five day window of weather over a distance like 2000 mile across the Atlantic and whether a boat like the Leaopard 37 could do it in 5 days ( to get the range it probably isnt going faster than 10 knots to preserve fuel efficiency) and although I know very little about sailing and boating I do know a bit about weather and predicting it accurately where slight wind directional changes can shift a heavy strom hundreds of miles.


As for piracy issues it is a major concern around Eiritrea and Somalia and Yeoman but I hve heard that the piracy problems these days have been addressed to a large extent with the South China Seas being the worst affected areas these days.

Also arent people getting together and forming convoys these days to travel in groups?

Anyway most likely I am just going to be island hopping around the Med or in Asia and probably will never have to attempt an Asia to Med trip or vice versa (unless I get a sail catamaran which is unlikely).

[Sand crab]

Originally Posted by Koum

Easier said than done unfortunately as I need ease of use:-(

How long would it take me to learn how to sail?

However I must admit that I do REALLY love the Lagoon 500 that friends own but its out of my price range and practically unsinkable even in the foulest and roughest of seas.

Sailing is easy and sailing a cat is easier yet. You do know that they rent these charter cats to anyone with a pulse? Try it and you'll be hooked. See Bumfuzzles.