Mantus Dinghy Light: USCG Violation??

[BenBowSirocco]

Hello,



I was looking to buy navigation lights for my dinghy, and these Mantus lights look sweet, but my understanding of the rules are:


-White must be 3.3' (1m) above Red/Green
-Light beams must be unbroken


As advertised this light seems to be a clear violation as a dinghy nav light, but the box says USCG compliant. It also says "USCG Approved, 2nm" in the Features..

I know if I mounted it to my outboard as shown it would absolutely get blocked by my body and the bodies of my passengers.


Obviously Mantus can say what they want, its my job to make sure my vessel is compliant. Just seems bit unfair to market something that is not compliant as such. I am sure a lot of people are naive to the rules.



Anyone want to weigh in if I am misinterpreting the situation?



Light link with video:
https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-...igation-light/

[rslifkin]

I wouldn't put a light on the outboard, it should be on a pole to get it up higher so it's less likely to be blocked. For a dinghy, the height difference between lights would be low on my list of concerns though.

[dlj]

Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco

Hello,

-White must be 3.3' (1m) above Red/Green
-Light beams must be unbroken
]

Not sure where you got this requirement.

I'm not aware that a stern light has that requirement. As far as I'm aware, there is no relative height requirement w.r.t. the navigation lights. They can all be in the same level, or above or below. The requirements as I understand them are degrees of visibility and minimum distance they have to be visible.

Steaming lights, not what you need on a dinghy, do have relative height requirements w.r.t. navigation lights.

I'd suggest that the light is compliant as advertised.

dj

[pbiJim]

Legal requirements for a vessel under 7 meters, under 7 knots, is just a flashlight, unless you are in a shipping channel or some other high traffic area. The visibility distance requirement varies with the length of the boat.
https://www.boatus.org/study-guide/navigation/lights/

https://boattest.com/article/rules-nav-lights

https://www.railblaza.com/what-are-t...-do-i-require/

http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName...Content#rule23


Around me, any lights that work will keep you out of trouble with the popo. The problem is keeping them working. Battery powered nav lights are notorious for rotting out & not lasting. The battery packs often go first, but not always. I wrap my lights in electrical tape to make them more water resistant. I keep a spare battery pack on hand, as well as a spare light set.


If you get that light from Mantus, & it holds up well, please post back here & let us know that you found something reliable. That would be fantastic information.


...But USCG does have a warning memo out about low quality lights on the market that I just found. It was posted in 2015 - https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...b&opi=89978449


That document lists the applicable federal regulations if you want to look up the exact requirements for yourself

[BenBowSirocco]

They measure the 7kn as potential speed: so I do not qualify. Most dinghies dont in my experience.



Taken from:
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/uscg-navigation-lights



On power driven vessels (only) less than 39.4 feet, the masthead and stern functions may be combined into a single all-around white light (225° plus 135°). If used, make sure the all-around white light is at least 3.3 feet (1 meter) above your sidelights. When not underway, this all-round combination light can also be used as an anchor light, see below.


I am trying to find the USCG rule for this, but man they make it a challenge to understand clearly the requirements for small craft. Which is a shame considering that 90% of all registered boats in the USA are under 24' and I think I also read there are 17 million boats in use here.. haha



Every picture I have seen illustrating a combined all around light does show it raised up high.

[BenBowSirocco]

Rule 23 (Power-driven vessels underway)



(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit:

(i) a masthead light forward;
(ii) a second masthead light abaft of and higher than the forward one; except that a vessel of
less than 50 m in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such light but may do so;
(iii) sidelights;
(iv) a sternlight.

(b) An air-cushion vessel when operating in the non-displacement mode shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit an all-round flashing yellow light.
(c) A WIG craft only when taking off, landing and in flight near the surface shall, in addition to the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule, exhibit a high intensity all-round flashing red light.
(d)

(i) A power-driven vessel of less than 12 m in length may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and sidelights;
(ii) a power-driven vessel of less than 7 m in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights;
(iii) the masthead light or all-round white light on a power-driven vessel of less than 12 m in length may be displaced from the fore-and-aft centreline of the vessel if centreline fitting is not practicable, provided that the sidelights are combined in one lantern which shall be carried on the fore-and-aft centreline of the vessel or located as nearly as practicable in the same fore-and-aft line as the masthead light or the all-round white light.

So it seems that they are allowing the all around white light to be a combination of a forward facing masthead and stern light- which must be visible 360 degrees?

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco

So it seems that they are allowing the all around white light to be a combination of a forward facing masthead and stern light- which must be visible 360 degrees?

Yes, that's correct. I'd elevate it on a pole such that it's not too susceptible to your head blocking it and you should be good to go.

[IRENE]

…and your initial post regarding vertical positioning (1 meter above the sidelights for the 360 white) was also correct. The reference is Annex 1 of the Navigation Rules/COLREGS. Good on you for taking the time to do it right

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco

They measure the 7kn as potential speed: so I do not qualify. Most dinghies dont in my experience.



Taken from:
https://www.fisheriessupply.com/uscg-navigation-lights



On power driven vessels (only) less than 39.4 feet, the masthead and stern functions may be combined into a single all-around white light (225° plus 135°). If used, make sure the all-around white light is at least 3.3 feet (1 meter) above your sidelights. When not underway, this all-round combination light can also be used as an anchor light, see below.


I am trying to find the USCG rule for this, but man they make it a challenge to understand clearly the requirements for small craft. Which is a shame considering that 90% of all registered boats in the USA are under 24' and I think I also read there are 17 million boats in use here.. haha



Every picture I have seen illustrating a combined all around light does show it raised up high.

The mantus light by your description doesn't violate that 3.3 ft rule. The white light functions as a stern light not the all around white or steaming light. you still need a steaming light in addition to that ( strictly speaking)

[BenBowSirocco]

Okay, so the Mantus Dinghy Light is not USCG acceptable for dinghy navigation.



Bummer. Looks like a damn fine light. Really like the solar charging and self contained battery.



Gotta say, doesn't sit very well with me that Mantus pitches it directly as dinghy navigation light and advertises the light attached to the top of the outboard when its neither lawfully compliant as a navigation light nor is installing it on the outboard an acceptable installation spot.



How are consumers supposed to be aware of the facts when it says USCG compliant on the box and in the features??

I imagine if you ask them they would have an answer like: "the LED's are compliant for the 2nm requirement", but most people wont understand the difference.



..If nothing else, I guess a light of some kind is better than none for those who fall for their false marketing..

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco

Okay, so the Mantus Dinghy Light is not USCG acceptable for dinghy navigation.

What draws you to that conclusion? Looks perfectly usable..if a bit expensive.

You still ideally want bow lights and an all around light. This can't be accomplished with 1 fixture and it isn't what Mantus is trying to say that they are selling

[BenBowSirocco]

Originally Posted by pcmm

The mantus light by your description doesn't violate that 3.3 ft rule. The white light functions as a stern light not the all around white or steaming light. you still need a steaming light in addition to that ( strictly speaking)

But that's exactly it: if its not a fully compliant light for dinghy navigation as advertised, then whats the point???

[pcmm]

Originally Posted by BenBowSirocco

But that's exactly it: if its not a fully compliant light for dinghy navigation as advertised, then whats the point???

But it IS compliant. There is no light that I am aware of that can accomplish this all in one package. Its not trying to be that. It functions as either a bicolour bowl light or bow lights and stern lights. But you still need the "steaming light" so you will still need 2 fully compliant lights. "fully compliant" doesn't mean it does all your lighting in one package. Its up to you to mount all the necessary lights to be compliant. No where on the description does it say that it functions as the steaming light. Just bow and stern.

I think you are going down the rabbit hole on this one

[BenBowSirocco]

Originally Posted by pcmm

What draws you to that conclusion? Looks perfectly usable..if a bit expensive.

You still ideally want bow lights and an all around light. This can't be accomplished with 1 fixture and it isn't what Mantus is trying to say that they are selling

To your point: it would make a great bow light for red/green and I bet it does that part well.

But overall I think they are marketing this light specifically as a single purchase light for use as a one unit answer to navigational lights on dinghies, when it really doesn't qualify as such.

From website:

Mantus Solar Navigation Light
ideal for a dinghy or a small boat

Mantus Navigation light is designed to be used on dinghies as a navigational aid.

It says specifically in the video to mount it on the top of the outboard or using their 15" transom pole- both of which are way too low and will be blocked by humans in the boat. (when seated I am 34" tall)

It also says you can use it on the bow and shows it used in tri-color mode- but that shines the white direct back at the navigator and is not a stern light as the white is blocked: by the navigator, passenger, and engine and its not located on the stern..


I guess I am feeling as though its being marketed in a misleading and unsafe manner. Especially in the video.

Not everyone will have the wherewithal to know the rules and make sure they are compliant, especially after seeing the video and I think the manufacturer has a responsibility to educate their customers on the limitations of their product.

[sealandsky]

I purchased the Navisafe lights for my RIB. Compliant and easy to install when needed.