Canadian Boat in Florida

[olepedersen]

My point was for a US built boat, as mine is, registered in Canada, I get a cruising permit every year no charge,they have been issued in virginia, or florida for the last 6 years no requirement to leave US waters Ole
PS Been inspected several times never a problem

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by REsCat

These are not two separate and unrelated issues, the OP wants to know how a Canadian registered vessel is treated in the state of Florida. The laws regarding US vessels in Florida are not applicable to foreign owned/flagged cruising boats.

Perhaps I misunderstand you or you misunderstand me.

I was responding to your question "Do you know for a fact that a foreign owned , documented/registered cruising vessel can be Florida registered and not need a CBP cruising permit?"

And my answer still stands. I know for a fact that CBP cruising permit is based on whether or not a vessel is foreign owned. If that vessel also has a FL registration has nothing to do with CBP cruising permit If you are Canadian and your vessel is registered/documented in Canada the CBP could not care less if your vessel has state registration in all 50 US states. The owner(s) and vessel are still subject to any and all regulations regarding visas, cruising permits, importing the vessel, time limits, etc.

FL registration of out of state vessels is a revenue device only and confers no additional rights or permissions in regard to CBP.

In addition, whether or not FL will require that vessel to pay FL registration fees or FL sales and use tax has nothing to do with CBP.

I don't see how the two are inter-related.

[Vasco]

Originally Posted by olepedersen

My point was for a US built boat, as mine is, registered in Canada, I get a cruising permit every year no charge,they have been issued in virginia, or florida for the last 6 years no requirement to leave US waters Ole
PS Been inspected several times never a problem

All I can say is that you have been very fortunate. Again the following site spells out what the law is. And the law is that you (a non resident alien) cannot renew a cruising permit. You may get a new one if 15 days have elapsed since the previous one has expired or been surrendered and your boat arrives from a foreign port. Very simple, no ambiguity. I would like to know when the last time was that you got a new cruising permit. CBP have their act pretty well organized these days and it is difficult to slip between the cracks.
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...ld-one-expires

[sushirama]

How long can we leave a Canadian registered boat in Florida without having to register the boat and pay Florida taxes? - Forever, you cant register in Florida unless youre a resident. You live in Canada, the boat is Canadian. Id keep it out of the water when youre not here to be safe. The same as all the boats coming from NC or Maine. Of course if you buy it here, different story.

You will need whatever permits you need to bring it down from Canada to be renewed as needed.

When I moved to Fl from Mass I couldn't register anything in Florida until I established residency and got my license. What will happen is that if you're in Florida for too long they could fine you for being here for more than 30 days with out changing your residency out. They dont normally do that because of snowbirds but they can if in the mood. More than likely that ll be if you get pulled while driving not boating. Where Im at 1/4 of the boats are out of state or out of country registered and no one does anything as long as they are current on registration in the locality where they came from. OR I could be wrong.

[REsCat]

Originally Posted by olepedersen

My point was for a US built boat, as mine is, registered in Canada, I get a cruising permit every year no charge,they have been issued in virginia, or florida for the last 6 years no requirement to leave US waters Ole
PS Been inspected several times never a problem

As Vasco has included in his post #7, the CBP link:
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/det...ld-one-expires

"Can I get a cruising license after my old one has expired?

Cruising licenses exempt pleasure boats of certain countries from having to undergo formal entry and clearance procedures such as filing manifests and obtaining permits to proceed as well as from the payment of tonnage tax and entry and clearance fees at all but the first port of entry. These licenses can be obtained from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) Port Director at the first port of arrival in the United States. Cruising licenses are normally valid for up to a year.

Resident aliens may apply for successive cruising licenses if their foreign-flag vessel was made in the U.S. or if duty has been paid on its importation provided that the vessel is documented under the laws of one of the countries listed in 19 CFR 4.94(b). Under CBP policy, non-U.S. residents are not eligible for successive cruising licenses. A new license will not be issued unless the following two conditions have been met: (1) at least 15 days have elapsed since the previous license either expired or was surrendered, and (2) the vessel arrives in the U.S. from a foreign port or place. (Customs Directive 3130-006A) CBP will want to see foreign clearance paperwork as evidence that you are arriving from a foreign location.

Non-residents are cautioned to plan carefully so that the mandatory 15-day period does not fall in the middle of a planned stay in U.S. waters. It may make sense to surrender your cruising license to a CBP Officer when you leave U.S. waters and then obtain a new one when you re-enter the U.S. Traveling outside of U.S. waters while your cruising license is still in effect does NOT fulfill the 15-day requirement."

I guess you are lucky! (and experiencing the sole discretions of the CBP officers you are dealing with when you renew your Permit)


skipmac

I guess we dont understand each other

In the state of MD , VA and others, if a foreign owned/flagged vessel has a valid cruising permit issued by CBP or is hauled out for an "extended period" of time as I explained in my previous post, it will not be subject to state registration, use tax, asset tax or any fees that those states and their individual counties levy against boats.

The two are related!
Maybe the state of Florida has the same policy?.... but for foreign owned/flagged vessels the CBP cruising permit is non negotiable... no matter where you are in US waters.

[Kettlewell]

How long can we leave a Canadian registered boat in Florida without having to register the boat and pay Florida taxes? - Forever, you cant register in Florida unless youre a resident.

This is incorrect. Anyone can register a boat in Florida, regardless of citizenship. You can't get U.S. Coast Guard documentation without U.S. citizenship, but you can state register the boat. Done all the time. In general, most people need to register their boat in the state where they keep it most of the time, though some states like Massachusetts don't require state registration if it is a CG documented vessel.

By the way, many officials are misinformed about the actual regulations. It really pays to go right to the source documents, which are often available online. Sometimes it is handy having copies of these documents with you when you argue your individual case. And of course much Internet crowd-sourced wisdom is actually wisdumb--keep that in mind.

[boatpoker]

I think you guys are confusing the hell out of the OP who must first get the fundamentals right .... Life will be easier if you use the correct terms.

A US Documented Vessel = A Canadian Registered Vessel.
A US (state) Registered Vessel = a Canadian Licensed Vessel.

There has been some good info posted and some bunk. As a previous poster suggested all of the legitimate information is posted on official government sites, a much safer source of info.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by sushirama

How long can we leave a Canadian registered boat in Florida without having to register the boat and pay Florida taxes? - Forever, you cant register in Florida unless youre a resident. You live in Canada, the boat is Canadian. Id keep it out of the water when youre not here to be safe. The same as all the boats coming from NC or Maine. Of course if you buy it here, different story.

Here's a quote from one of the many websites from Florida addressing state registration requirements.


Florida Statutes
Florida statutes 327 and 328 regulate the administration and enforcement of vessel registration and titling laws, as well as boating safety. All motor vessels, documented vessels included, operated on state waters must be numbered and titled in Florida, except those used exclusively on private lakes. A non-resident vessel which is already registered by another state can be operated in Florida waters for 90 days before Florida registration is required.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by skipmac

. A non-resident vessel which is already registered by another state can be operated in Florida waters for 90 days before Florida registration is required.

What if that other state does not require registration? Such as my state in Australia for my dinghy.

I had a visit from the Florida police who asked about my dinghy... Which is on the deck and hasnt been used in Florida.
He was trying to say i needed a Crusing Permit like my big boat has. And needs Florida registration because it doesnt have home state registration.

My dink doesnt need state registration in Australia.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by REsCat

skipmac

I guess we dont understand each other

In the state of MD , VA and others, if a foreign owned/flagged vessel has a valid cruising permit issued by CBP or is hauled out for an "extended period" of time as I explained in my previous post, it will not be subject to state registration, use tax, asset tax or any fees that those states and their individual counties levy against boats.

The two are related!
Maybe the state of Florida has the same policy?.... but for foreign owned/flagged vessels the CBP cruising permit is non negotiable... no matter where you are in US waters.

Well I don't think you are understanding what I am saying. I keep saying FL registration does not impact CBP and you keep arguing back that CBP does impact FL registration. I have never denied that possibility and have pointed that out from my first post.

I said in a previous post and I repeat, I am certain that vessels registered in another US state or US documented are required by the state of FL to register the boat in the state of FL if that vessel cruises FL waters for more than 90 days BUT I was not certain how this regulation relates to foreign owned/registered vessels.

What I also said is that nothing in the state of FL will change requirements to comply with CBP for cruising permits, etc.

Again, back to your original question/statement "Do you know for a fact that a foreign owned , documented/registered cruising vessel can be Florida registered and not need a CBP cruising permit?"

I think you are asking if a FL registration exempts a vessel from the requirement for a CBP cruising permit. If that is your question then the answer is still no. Nothing one does regarding registration in a state will change the requirement to get a cruising permit from CBP. As long as the owner is a non-resident/non-citizen of the US and the vessel is foreign owned and registered the CBP requirements predominate.

So, nothing in state registration has anything to do with CBP requirements.

However, the other way around is different. Here are some quotes from the FL DOR website

1. Foreign Flagged Vessels
Boats flying a foreign flag are exempt from Florida use tax if they have a current license to cruise issued by the U.S. Customs Service. Licenses to cruise are available only to boats flagged in countries that have a treaty with the United States. The boat will remain exempt as long as you do not violate the provisions of the license to cruise.


2. Any foreign-flagged vessel, or any vessel used less than six months in another State, territory of the United States, or District of Columbia, imported into Florida for the purpose of resale is not subject to Florida use tax, pursuant to Section 212.06(1)(e)3., F.S.(See TAA 03A-051).

3. Florida use tax is due on any vessel imported into Florida from any foreign
country for operation on Florida waters, regardless of the period of use in that country, unless the vessel is operating under a “Federal Cruising License/Permit.”

AND perhaps most relevant to this discussion.

When a foreign-flagged vessel enters this State under a cruising license from the United States Customs Service and the boat is used consistently with such license and federal law, it is not subject to the registration requirements under Chapter 328, F.S. This has been confirmed by the DHSMV.

To summarize

CBP cruising permit exempts a boat from state registration and state tax requirements.

State registration would change nothing for CBP requirements.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by boatpoker

There has been some good info posted and some bunk. As a previous poster suggested all of the legitimate information is posted on official government sites, a much safer source of info.

Great idea. Here is a link to the State of Florida Department of Revenue official website page relating to registration, sales and use tax, foreign owned, etc.


http://dor.myflorida.com/dor/taxes/s...t_external.pdf

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

What if that other state does not require registration? Such as my state in Australia for my dinghy.

I had a visit from the Florida police who asked about my dinghy... Which is on the deck and hasnt been used in Florida.
He was trying to say i needed a Crusing Permit like my big boat has. And needs Florida registration because it doesnt have home state registration.

My dink doesnt need state registration in Australia.

Gee Mark. Leave it to you to find a situation that falls straight through the cracks. I didn't see anything in any of the FL regulations that specifically addressed that. Closest I could come is the FL regulation requiring all motorized boats to be registered and carry lights after dark. Didn't say anything about the boys from down under getting a free ride.

That's a really good question. Maybe I'll give the government boys a call and get an official opinion from the head office in Tallahassee.

Will report back tomorrow with the reply.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by skipmac

.

That's a really good question. Maybe I'll give the government boys a call and get an official opinion from the head office in Tallahassee.

Will report back tomorrow with the reply.

Id be very grateful if you did.
I am off to Key West tomorrow and do intend to be at anchor or in the mooring field and I will be using the dink. The plan is to be ther a month. That would make 2 months in Florida.

I spose the thing that irritates most is the assumption i have to know the rules and change boat configurations not only in every different country, but their individual states as well.

Mark

[REsCat]

skipmac
thank you for providing the appropriate Florida Dept of Revenue and DHSMV
statutes regarding the the treatment of foreign flagged vessels with a valid cruising permit. This answers the OPs original post.
I looked these up as well and in this link http://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/FFFVO.pdf the DHSMV seems to contradict itself with this publication

Quote:Originally Posted by REsCat
Do you know for a fact that a foreign owned , documented/registered cruising vessel can be Florida registered and not need a CBP cruising permit?


The above post was in response to and only directed to Post #12 by DenverdOn (I should have directly quoted his remarks)

"If you want to keep the boat in Florida, it will be easier to just register it there, than to get a cruising permit and move it out of the country for a period of time every year. Besides, the fee for registration is minimal--unless it's a mega-yacht you're looking at less than $200 per year, probably less than $150.

If you have owned and used this boat for more than 6 months already (outside of Florida) then you do NOT have to pay any sales/use taxes on it. Sounds like that is probably the case, or at least will be by the time you get it moved down to Florida."

I already knew the answer !!! ... and I never engaged or challenged you on a "Florida Registration defeating the need for a CBP cruising permit"
I already knew the answer!!!

Read my Post#11

I was seeking experience/known facts regarding how Florida treats Foreign owned/flagged vessels with a valid cruising permit as the OP originally wanted comments on.
Again thanks for the research, I spent a couple of hours looking it up as well.

Bob

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by skipmac

Gee Mark. Leave it to you to find a situation that falls straight through the cracks. I didn't see anything in any of the FL regulations that specifically addressed that. Closest I could come is the FL regulation requiring all motorized boats to be registered and carry lights after dark. Didn't say anything about the boys from down under getting a free ride.

That's a really good question. Maybe I'll give the government boys a call and get an official opinion from the head office in Tallahassee.

Will report back tomorrow with the reply.

Hi Mark,

Well took me three days to reach someone who seemed to know something about this. The official opinion from a captain at the Tallahassee HQ of the FL FWC is that you would have to have a registration for the dinghy, regardless of Australian law. I asked what to do since the dinghy has no existing registration and possibly no other paperwork since it is considered part of the main sailboat's equipment. In that case you could call the local office of the FWC and ask an officer to inspect the boat and he or she could then issue you some sort of paperwork that would allow you to get a registration.

The cost of the registration would be pretty cheap and may be what you have to do. If you plan on spending a few months here you will probably run into this again, other states as well as FL so may as well bite the bullet.