When we shouldn't encourage people to "just go"

[caldawson]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

My two cents, working backward:



1) A quote from the best movie in the world (The Edge ) What one man can do....ANOTHER CAN DO!!! That's in Anthony Hopkins' voice, so be sure to hear him in your head. Meaning there is nothing you can do that I cannot, and conversely there is nothing I can do that you cannot. Newbies with a dream to go sailing? If there is one wind-jockey on this forum who has done a crossing, a circumnavigation, a race, or come out of a hurricane intact (or even better, has the skills and sense to weather-route around it), then any newbie has the power to do the same. They just need the WILL....



2) If they have the Will, then they will do their homework, because it isn't homework...it's FUN. They'll learn that setting off without the right training or experience or doing things too fast can (but not always, depending on their risk aversion) lead to tragedy. If they go slow, research their boat, get up a budget, learn their chops, take things in small steps, then any newbie can do what we can do because they won't be newbies anymore. I haven't really seen anyone suggesting someone who has never sailed buy a bluewater boat and hit the north atlantic with their wife and kid the next day, so... And first, before the Will comes...



3) The Dream. I don't think any of us go into this lightly. Who would give up jobs and houses and stability to find something in a dangerous and unforgiving and expensive environment just on a whim? Risking their lives and families and relationships? I'm not talking about people who grew up sailing and fell into it naturally, I'm talking about the 30 or 40 or 50 year old newbies who seem to one day just up and try to go. Something must have been bubbling in them for a long time to get to this point, something scratching at the door for a lot of years that they want to silence or at least understand. Looking for peace, for adventure, to soothe a midlife crisis (I've had several by 41, so I know what I'm talking about ) What seems like a whim is more likely years or decades of dreaming, wishing, for what probably many couldn't even articulate for a long time.



Not discounting natural selection of course. So let the newbies fly free! They won't be newbies for long. One way or another.... Those who skip a lot of steps will slip away. Financial disaster, disaster at sea, broken marriage, unhappiness....they'll leave and if they are able, buy a Corvette. Those who take the right steps--dare I say, the same steps we've probably all taken to get here--then we'll see them in some stormy anchorage and have no worries they're gonna drag down on us cause they'll know what they're doing. Long story short, we were all them once.



Sorry for the stream of consciousness word salad... I'm stuck in Hungary away from Wake and my girls and my cats, 8 am hungover and bored

I love this post so much.

[Sojourner]

Originally Posted by caldawson

I also learned that I get sick and spent 2 days throwing up all over myself while trying to control my boat. I have the heart just not the knowledge.

Awwww thank ye, as well as Dockhead, for the nice words....

Anyway, you got the heart? Then you'll get the knowledge, no worries. You still get seasick? Give it some time, it'll go away the more you do it and you'll be stirfrying in the galley in an F8 before you know it. Or at least throwing some chicken in the pressure cooker

I'm not worried for you. You'll write your own life the way you need it to be...there is no other choice

[Lepke]

It's a free country. You can't pass enough laws to protect stupid people. They help the gene pool.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lepke

It's a free country. You can't pass enough laws to protect stupid people. They help the gene pool.

Have you known a lot of inexperienced cruisers who have gotten killed because of their lack of skill?

I haven't, not one actually. What kills people at sea is much more often arrogance and overconfidence, not lack of experience. But even that actually kills very, very rarely. So what kind of gene pool are you talking about? Come on -- this sport is safer than golf.


So I would suggest lightening up!

[caldawson]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Have you known a lot of inexperienced cruisers who have gotten killed because of their lack of skill?

I haven't, not one actually. What kills people at sea is much more often arrogance and overconfidence, not lack of experience. But even that actually kills very, very rarely. So what kind of gene pool are you talking about? Come on -- this sport is safer than golf.


So I would suggest lightening up!

Haha I agree with you dockhead. But maybe that’s because I am one of the stupid ones.

[Mr B]

Originally Posted by caldawson

Yeah we were in docklands but weren’t happy with Melbourne, so we took off again and ended up in Newcastle as we Re goi g to head north.

Western Port Bay is much more laid back, Country, not City,

You probably dont know this as not many do,

Around the Port Stephens area there is a Mini Cyclone That is there for most of the year,
There the wind will change from north to south in a few hours, East to West as well,
It goes around in Circles,
Only 3 places in the world that this occurs, Oz is one,
Be aware of it,

Every where else in OZ, you will get a wind in the same direction for a couple of days before it changes,
Easy Peasy,

The Tasman sea can be entertaining at times, 6 metre waves and plus 40 knot winds,
It will keep you on your toes,
Just run before it till it blows itself out, On an angle across the waves,

Youve done well, Enjoy your trip,

[SVOddity]

Here’s a funny though from a Newbie that was carpet bombed with GOOD ADVICE.


I went and I bought a hull on eBay. I had LITERALLY half the world land on me. “ sell the boat on eBay” “burn it and it will be cheaper” “what a clueless moron” “bin it and buy a ready to sail boat” “you should learn how to sail before you do something that stupid “ etc. and this is but a small sample of what we heard.
I am “new” to plastic boats. I know next to nothing about them, I am learning and picking it up as I go along.
Now the truly funny part. I learned how to sail with my Grandpa, started at 5 years of age. He had a small fishing fleet of sailboats for Atlantic cod fished in Greenland waters. They would drop dories and each would brave the North Atlantic waters till they were full with fish. The last sailboat of my grandpa is now being restored for a museum dedicated to all those that braved such waters to fish.
I learned how to sail from him, how to measure and respect the seas, how the seas do not respect you in anyway. I did my first crossing at 16 from Portugal to the Azores. I sailed many a boat solo or with crew, I been in storms not of my choosing, I’ve been in mistakes of my own folly, I caught winds I did not wish. I survived a day I thought I would not.
So, I AM new to sailing. I have no experience of plastic boats. The seas will not respect me and it seems a lot of Marina Admirals also will not. For THEY are the better sailor then I will never be. I’m stuck in perpetual learning from my own mistakes and poor judgment. I look at the sky and go read instead of sailing because I happen not to like a cloud in active wind shear.
My Grandpa, HE was a SAILOR ! I am NEVER going to measure up to him or have anywhere near his experience gleamed from a lifetime of sailing on the Atlantic from South to North in every possible weather.
Funny that no one even asked if I had actually sailed or knew anything before all the “saving “ they gave me. And most of those that did.. are NOT the ones I would ask for advice.
I tend to ask advise from the ones that say nothing. Those are the ones who think and have experience.
Words of my “vovozinho” (grandpa in Portuguese) to me. “ if you ever find yourself sinking bellow the waves, your last action should be to push your hand above the water and stick your finger at the world”. ( I kid you not, I was 16 when he told me that shortly before he passed.)
To “dreamers” like me ? Listen NOT to the ones that offer FREE advice. Ask the ones that pause in thought. Those are the ones you want to learn from.
I once dragged anchor, katabatic winds can be “fun”, I found myself with 60m of chain and a BIG anchor on a windlass that said “that’s not happening” on account of the depth changing to 300m a very short distance from the shore. A fisherman close by, without a word, just stopped what he was doing, motored my way, looped a cable around the chain and motored away towing me towards shore. 2 engines did the trick and I reset my anchor after a “ bit “ of fiddling and with his help. No words were exchanged except thank you and his answer was, “I had that happen to me a couple of times”
THAT was good advice.
Greg.

PS- I enjoy receiving great helpings of advice with no bearing on what I actually need or looking for.
The Church did that. They Burned people at the stake to save their souls.
Worked wonders, they are all in heaven playing little harps and fluttering around on little wings they spouted. Long live the Inquisition for they save us from ourselfs.

[Mr B]

Hhahahahaha, So he is new to plastic boats, Thats quite a statement.

What were his previous boats made out of, Wood, Steel, Logs, Aluminium,
He didnt say,

I bought a big sail boat, Previous experience on big Sailboats, Nil, Nada, Zilch,
Same statement, Hahahaha

[SVOddity]

Originally Posted by Mr B

Hhahahahaha, So he is new to plastic boats, Thats quite a statement.

What were his previous boats made out of, Wood, Steel, Logs, Aluminium,
He didnt say,

I bought a big sail boat, Previous experience on big Sailboats, Nil, Nada, Zilch,
Same statement, Hahahaha

The first 2 I helped build were wood, then I had steel. I don't know how you quantify big. The first boat I sailed on was a 26 m (meters not feet) two mast Fast transport galleon made of wood (Galeao do sal ) look it up. They pretty beautiful. Bit of tall ship sailing and small lasers and dories galore. I do seem to fail at grasping windsurf, I sail backwards.. just before I fall.

Yes, I AM new to plastic boats

Why would that be "quite" a statement. Is that not what holds them together? I thought that was the case on mine. I better cancel the last order of Plastic resins for the laminate.

[Catapault]

We (My self, my wife and 2 cats) "Just Went". I had some idea, she had next to none.

28 months ago, we dreamed this up whilst on a Silversea cruise in the Caribbean, decided buying a sail boat and sailing it to Australia was a good ide. We set a goal, "be cruising by our 20th Wedding anniversary".

20 months ago we did ASA10'x' etc and then a 2 week BVI Charter.

14 months ago we bought a boat.

12 months ago tomorrow, we moved onto the (new to us) boat full time, and lived on it ever since.

Right now we are sitting in a very private cove in southern Turkey, having just finished a swim with a turtle nearby and a nice meal cooked via Solar.

In 9 days week we celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary, at sea, cruising, taking the leisurely trip (years) back to Australia.


Will we make some mistakes ? certainly. Will we try our hardest to ensure they are not fatal/crippling or any other 'worst case' scenarios ? Also sure.

But frankly, it is more dangerous (IN MY OPINION) to b driving to/from work on some freeways every day, than it is cruising. Cruising is not a place for the foolish, reckless or the stupid. But then neither is behind the wheel of a car.

I think we SHOULD encourage people to 'just go', but we should also encourage them to do the work (FUN) required to 'go' and help them towards the right resources to do so in a safe and enjoyable manner.


We, humans, learn by doing...


Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did so. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
MARK TWAIN

In order to succeed, we must first believe that we can.
- Nikos Kazantzakis


Regards

Mark.

[Lonestaralaskan]

Originally Posted by Catapault

But frankly, it is more dangerous (IN MY OPINION) to b driving to/from work on some freeways every day, than it is cruising. Cruising is not a place for the foolish, reckless or the stupid. But then neither is behind the wheel of a car.

This, precisely.

[SVOddity]

Originally Posted by Lonestaralaskan

This, precisely.

Originally Posted by Catapault

We (My self, my wife and 2 cats) "Just Went". I had some idea, she had next to none.

28 months ago, we dreamed this up whilst on a Silversea cruise in the Caribbean, decided buying a sail boat and sailing it to Australia was a good ide. We set a goal, "be cruising by our 20th Wedding anniversary".

20 months ago we did ASA10'x' etc and then a 2 week BVI Charter.

14 months ago we bought a boat.

12 months ago tomorrow, we moved onto the (new to us) boat full time, and lived on it ever since.

Right now we are sitting in a very private cove in southern Turkey, having just finished a swim with a turtle nearby and a nice meal cooked via Solar.

In 9 days week we celebrate our 20th wedding anniversary, at sea, cruising, taking the leisurely trip (years) back to Australia.


Will we make some mistakes ? certainly. Will we try our hardest to ensure they are not fatal/crippling or any other 'worst case' scenarios ? Also sure.

But frankly, it is more dangerous (IN MY OPINION) to b driving to/from work on some freeways every day, than it is cruising. Cruising is not a place for the foolish, reckless or the stupid. But then neither is behind the wheel of a car.

I think we SHOULD encourage people to 'just go', but we should also encourage them to do the work (FUN) required to 'go' and help them towards the right resources to do so in a safe and enjoyable manner.


We, humans, learn by doing...


Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did so. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
MARK TWAIN

In order to succeed, we must first believe that we can.
- Nikos Kazantzakis


Regards

Mark.

* insert DROP THE MIKE here *

[Catapault]

Originally Posted by SVOddity

* insert DROP THE MIKE here *

Sorry, I don't get the reference... elaborate ? (not from the US if its a local thing !)

Rgds

Mark.
Lagoon 450F - Some bay in the med...

[Jim Cate]

You probably dont know this as not many do,

Around the Port Stephens area there is a Mini Cyclone That is there for most of the year,
There the wind will change from north to south in a few hours, East to West as well,
It goes around in Circles,
Only 3 places in the world that this occurs, Oz is one,
Be aware of it,

How fortunate Ann and I have been to never encounter this deadly met feature in our twenty odd years of sailing through this area.

One can only wonder where the other two places are... we would like to avoid them, for we might not be so lucky there.

Jim

[SVOddity]

Originally Posted by Catapault

Sorry, I don't get the reference... elaborate ? (not from the US if its a local thing !)

Rgds

Mark.
Lagoon 450F - Some bay in the med...

Hey there sorry, A mic drop is the gesture of intentionally dropping one's microphone at the end of a performance or speech to signal triumph.
Bit like saying "Eat that" there's no coming back from that.

New things that even I at 53 find hard to kepp up with.