Woman on "learn to sail vacation" raped. St Lucia seriously needs a wake-up call.

[Celestialsailor]

I can see where this is going to end up...

[first wind]

Originally Posted by zeehag

and so you choose to diss her and try her for your thoughts , just based on YOUR EXPERIENCES, not on her own merit?
wow.
so you think all except your friend are lying cheating whores looking for a tryst ???
i am sooo impressed.
NOT

why do you disbelieve that folks can actually be honest--is it because you are not honest????? or is it because you believe women are not honest--and is that due to lies from your face or the lies from others.. there is a lot to learn in this mess--most of it how folks are within themselves. reponses reflect attitude towards women.
interesting, isnt it.

i have to agree with this...at least as far as casting doubt on this woman's honesty; worse, really...accusing her of perfidy. i read the article linked at the beginning of this thread and there isn't a hint of any evidence that she wasn't just sleeping in her bed when attacked by a stranger.

yes. the company is disputing her claims. of course they are. not only are they being sued and apt to lose a good deal of money but, this will probably be a fairly high profile case, all things considered. can you imagine how devastating this would be on their business. that's why they didn't want her saying anything to any of the other guests. if anyone's honesty is to be doubted, in this situation, it's the company that has so much to lose and has already tried to shut her up to protect it's own interests. a company that showed no real concern for the fact that she was raped on their watch.

you say you know about this first hand because it happened to a relative and that person was put through the ringer and this is why you accuse this woman of being a sexual predator that changed her mind and now wants to cry rape. let me ask you, was your relative a cougar looking to get a piece that cried rape unjustly (as you imply this woman was) or was she truly a victim? and if she was truly a victim, which i am assuming was the case, why are you so sure this woman wasn't?

if anything, i would think your experience would make you sympathetic to her situation. yet, it seems to have had the exact opposite effect. i don't get it.

it's unjust to condemn this woman based on a wild flight of fancy that isn't born out by any of the available evidence. the only thing that i can see she is guilty of is being a bit too trusting in the company that she hired to give her a sailing class/vacation in the Caribbean.

[Dr. Sea]

Originally Posted by zboss

Are those facts? Just sayin' thats for the police and the courts to determine during a trial or lawsuit.

Yes, those are the facts as reported in the news article. To assume otherwise requires either knowledge of facts not available to CF readers or a sexist attitude inclined to blame the female victim.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sea

Yes, those are the facts as reported in the news article. To assume otherwise requires either knowledge of facts not available to CF readers or a sexist attitude inclined to blame the female victim.

I hadn't read the article until just now. In the article one woman claims something happened and another woman strenuously disputes the claim.

[Dr. Sea]

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

I hadn't read the article until just now. In the article one woman claims something happened and another woman strenuously disputes the claim.

Right. The woman who disputes the claim is the one who manages/owns the tour agency and the villa where the attack occurred. It's not surprising that with a great deal of money and terrible publicity at stake she would deny any negligence. The callous way the company trivialized the seriousness of the rape by offering a manicure and a massage as compensation gives some insight into the character and veracity of the company.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sea

Right. The woman who disputes the claim is the one who manages/owns the tour agency and the villa where the attack occurred. It's not surprising that with a great deal of money and terrible publicity at stake she would deny any negligence. The callous way the company trivialized the seriousness of the rape by offering a manicure and a massage as compensation gives some insight into the character and veracity of the company.

You're referring to a rape that one woman states did not occur.

[SV DestinyAscen]

Maybe I'm too fresh here and perhaps too earnest, but maybe this might develop some empathy?

Imagine if you're on your boat in a safe location, there's enough constant activity and there's always noise, and during the middle of the night unknown people board you, and you don't realize what's going on until they've already onboard?

When you describe your unusual experience, out from left field you're called a fool for inviting strangers onboard, not maintaining a constant watch while safely anchored, not closing all hatches and suffocate yourself while you sleep, not sleeping with a gun next to you, or GASP - WTF are you sailing at all? This doesn't happen unless you had a boat.

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

You're referring to a rape that one woman states did not occur.

With all due respect, women, like men - are individuals too. One woman's self-interested testimony does not automatically invalidate another woman's testimony just because it is about rape.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by zeehag

and so you choose to diss her and try her for your thoughts , just based on YOUR EXPERIENCES, not on her own merit?
wow.
so you think all except your friend are lying cheating whores looking for a tryst ???
i am sooo impressed.
NOT

why do you disbelieve that folks can actually be honest--is it because you are not honest????? or is it because you believe women are not honest--and is that due to lies from your face or the lies from others.. there is a lot to learn in this mess--most of it how folks are within themselves. reponses reflect attitude towards women.
interesting, isnt it.

I believe that the whole truth has yet to be discovered and you cannot judge the situation until the facts have come forth. Her claim does not amount to a material fact. Things like police reports, or an official investigation into the door being locked or unlocked, or an investigation into where everyone was before, during, or after the proposed incident.

That's all.

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by zboss

I believe that the whole truth has yet to be discovered and you cannot judge the situation until the facts have come forth. Her claim does not amount to a material fact. Things like police reports, or an official investigation into the door being locked or unlocked, or an investigation into where everyone was before, during, or after the proposed incident.

That's all.

This^^^. Neither woman's claim amounts to a material fact. /thread.

[Tetra]

I certainly don't want to minimize the seriousness of this event and I'm sorry that she went through this--whatever happened down there. But, as a take-action kind of person, it is a little bit of a wake-up call. I look to myself for my own security and think that many/most of us do too.

When I travel, I tend to take the existence of locking doors for granted. But in this case, this reportedly was not the case. I've seen ads for travelers' security devices that might have prevented this. I've seen 'under door' wedges, door knob alarms and even bars that wedge between the floor and doorknob. My wife is taking a solo business trip soon and I think I'll send something like this along with her.

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by first wind

that is a point. however, you shouldn't confuse amorality with mental illness. i am pretty sure her rapist knew what he was doing. knew it was illegal and immoral and didn't care. claiming that evil men are merely mentally ill removes responsibility for their actions from them.

Good point but if someone is Amoral to the point of rape I'd have to think they are pretty sick/ mentally ill but that is no excuse for their actions, or it is possible that the island or its governing body or lack there of allows this type of behavior to go relatively unpunished which does nothing to help prevent it along with all the other crimes against visiting cruisers/sailors that have been increasing. So I agree me saying mentally ill may not be accurate.
Sure you can compare their stats to the U S etc but if you take out the non cruising visiting component I think they would change drastically.
As for those doubting the events or facts, this is a Doctor, not some partying college kid or delinquent, but a professional, well educated individual, but doubters will doubt.

Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[pickpaul]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

not some partying college kid or delinquent, but a professional, well educated individual

"Partying college kids" and "delinquents" are raped too. You are implying that accusations from "professionals" should be treated differently which I assume you didn't mean. Also, thanks for conceding the mentally ill point.

[Dulcesuenos]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

"Partying college kids" and "delinquents" are raped too. You are implying that accusations from "professionals" should be treated differently which I assume you didn't mean. Also, thanks for conceding the mentally ill point.

I guess I am implying that, Call me what you will but someone who is a medical professional going on a women's only learn to sail trip may be just a "bit" more credible than someone going to a college spring break party till u barffathon. 😀

Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

I guess I am implying that, Call me what you will but someone who is a medical professional going on a women's only learn to sail trip may be just a "bit" more credible than someone going to a college spring break party till u barffathon. 😀

Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

You're showing bias and that would disqualify you as a juror (in the US.)

[pickpaul]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

I guess I am implying that, Call me what you will but someone who is a medical professional going on a women's only learn to sail trip may be just a "bit" more credible than someone going to a college spring break party till u barffathon. 😀

You understand that victim credibility doesn't change their chance of being raped right?

Except that actually, in many cases credibility is inversely proportionate as rapists pick victims that have less to avoid prosecution.

Are you supporting a world where men are allowed to get drunk but not women as they need to stay sober to defend themselves against men?

You are also missing male rape in your thinking which is also a huge problem.