Woman on "learn to sail vacation" raped. St Lucia seriously needs a wake-up call.

[Dulcesuenos]

Would a lock really keep out some mentally ill islander hell bent on rape who knows where a lone tourist woman was sleeping? Or is it better to just avoid a place where this happens with historically little or no consequence to the perpetrator

Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[zeehag]

a lock being picked sounds like something to awaken to. is a lil noisier than being awakened by a heavy weight unwanted and uninvited on ye. it is also a protection for the tour company against lawsuits. can work both ways.
no it wont prevent a mission, but it could pre warn the victim before becoming one.

[TurninTurtle]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

Would a lock really keep out some mentally ill islander hell bent on rape who knows where a lone tourist woman was sleeping? Or is it better to just avoid a place where this happens with historically little or no consequence to the perpetrator

Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

So, by that logic, all women should avoid colleges.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sea

This woman did not "let herself be alone with a home boy." She wasn't drunk or stoned.

Are those facts? Just sayin' thats for the police and the courts to determine during a trial or lawsuit.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

No, try this link instead...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansplaining

if you have any genuine interest in why your post was offensive.

my post? how was my post from the urban dictionary offensive? i mean, your mansplaining post wasn't aimed at one f my posts so i can only think that you mean the urban dictionary post.

and, heck, even your feminist positive link notes that the term "mansplaining" is considered inherently sexist by some. which it is. can't tell you how many times i've had one woman or another womansplain at me...using your link's definition.

[zeehag]

Zboss, if a woman is asleep in her bed and someone rudely insists on laying on her, it is not something invited. it is not something wanted nor even considered as acceptable behavior.. . if anyone states they were wakened by a strange uninvited body lying on .... then what would your appropriate reaction and response actually be?? spozing the woman was your wife., would you still diss her as you are doing the victim in htis situation? would your response still be as inappropriate as it was ?? many of you clown males have verbalized essentially that she should have laid back and enjoyed it.
wtf are you ???
no one ASKS for the rapemesuite.
no one requests pool boy in room service without verbalizing it aloud.
when she requested a key and was advised there were none-- she should a split with bells on her ass. OR rigged a keep you out device on her door so as to make it less easy for the rapist to enter her room.
but we all have shouda woulda coulda advice retrospectively.
women do not walk around with a come rape me sign on our backs. nor do we want uninvited random sex with someone who prolly has enough extras to pass around without help.
had it been a male awakened by a rapist, i am sure the situation would be repaired immediately

[first wind]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

Classic victim blaming.

no one is 'victim blaming'...boy you sure are full of those nifty little pc cliches aren't you? next you'll be talking about micro aggressions.

look, in the first place, i said his comment didn't really apply to this situation. this woman was raped while sleeping in a room that she had every reason to believe was a safe and secure place.

however...while i certainly not saying any woman is to blame for her rape or that rapists are not evil because they take advantage of a woman who put herself in a shady situation, there is the make believe world of strawberry shortcake and my little pony and then there is the really for real world.

bad people exist it the really for real world. if you go down a dark alley late at night in the bad side of town, the very real possibility is that there may be a bad person or bad people waiting to do you harm. if you are wise, you realize this and you don't go down dark alleys in the bad side of town. or, if you must, you take precautions, like knowing how to defend yourself or being armed and trained.

similarly, guys who dope women at parties and rape them are human slime but, again, this is the really for real world and we all know this happens so, if you are a woman at a party, you don't let your drink out of sight. you don't drink a drink handed to you by someone who is not your most trusted friend. you don't get so drunk you can not make rational choices (i follow that rule at all times myself) and you don't drink a drink you let sit.

this is being responsible for your own safety.

i teach martial arts. for years, i had taught on the campus of a really nice school in northwest baltimore. they had a lot of sheltered rich kids come in from out of state. during orientation, they would warn new students not to walk into the surrounding neighborhoods because it wasn't safe. they couldn't come right out and say, " this school is surrounded by the hood. don't go walking your pretty little white A$$ in the hood, alone or with friends, at night (or any time, really) or some gangsta may decide to rape you." that would by non-pc and all those people who throw around terms like mansplain and victim blame would get all in an uproar. now, when, from time to time, some drunk rich girl dressed like a hooker would wander through the hood late at night and get raped....sure, the rapist is at fault and should (in my opinion) be executed. give me the ax. i'll do the cutting.

however....don't you think that a supposedly college smart girl should know better than to walk through the hood, late at night, dressed like a slut, in one of the most crime ridden cities in America? and don't you think that she should have taken some responsibility for her own safety and have stayed out of the hood? i'm talking about in the really for real world and not smurfland, here.

let's face it, we are taught the police will protect you but, they can't be everywhere. besides, no one has as much invested interest in your safety as you do.

as sailors, we condemn someone who would sail an unseaworthy vessel into rough seas but, you think it's disgusting to say that a person should take some responsibility for their own safety?

it's kind of like grocery store parking lots. yes, pedestrians have the right of way. however, the morons who step out from behind a big suv right into the path of someone backing up...someone who probably can't see through that big suv...and then want to give the guy backing up the stink eye because he didn't see them til the last minute, and had to slam the brakes, are total flaming idiots.

common sense rule #1: i don't care if you have the right of way. you don't step into the path of a moving vehicle! this is doubly true is it's in any way possible the driver may not be able to see you.

yes. you may very well have the right of way but, what good does that do you when you become road pizza? do you think they give awards in heaven for people who take their right of way so seriously it kills them?

you have to be responsible for your own safety. that's all that other poster was saying and it's what i was agreeing to.

no one is blaming a victim or defending a criminal. it's just you can't do something that common sense would let you know is stupid and then be surprised when the situation goes south.

however, as i said in my previous post, this thought, while totally valid, doesn't apply to this particular situation...

although, i will say that i would not sleep in a room that i can not secure in a place that is strange to me. especially in a foreign country. wouldn't do it. i don't care if it was the land of the smurfs and everything seemed real cool and smurfy. gargamels lurk even in smurf land. and as a guy, i don't really have to worry all that much about being raped and i am ALWAYS armed. still. you shouldn't put yourself in a vulnerable position (like sleep) in an unsecured location.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Dulcesuenos

Would a lock really keep out some mentally ill islander hell bent on rape who knows where a lone tourist woman was sleeping? Or is it better to just avoid a place where this happens with historically little or no consequence to the perpetrator

Sent from my PLT1077G using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

that is a point. however, you shouldn't confuse amorality with mental illness. i am pretty sure her rapist knew what he was doing. knew it was illegal and immoral and didn't care. claiming that evil men are merely mentally ill removes responsibility for their actions from them.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by zeehag

a lock being picked sounds like something to awaken to. is a lil noisier than being awakened by a heavy weight unwanted and uninvited on ye. .

not really related to the discussion at hand but, do you pick locks? i do. it's pretty quiet. there is a tiny click, barely audible, as you slide the tumblers up into place. it's no louder than unlocking a door with a key.

you insert the tension wrench into the side of the keyway opposite the tumblers. you put tension on the wrench in the direction you would turn the key. then, you insert your pick and carefully push the tumblers into position. the tension holds them there and when the final tumbler goes home, the lock turns just like you had the key. it takes a bit of art but, not a lot of noise.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by zeehag

Zboss, if a woman is asleep in her bed and someone rudely insists on laying on her, it is not something invited. it is not something wanted nor even considered as acceptable behavior.. . if anyone states they were wakened by a strange uninvited body lying on .... then what would your appropriate reaction and response actually be?? spozing the woman was your wife., would you still diss her as you are doing the victim in htis situation? would your response still be as inappropriate as it was ?? many of you clown males have verbalized essentially that she should have laid back and enjoyed it.
wtf are you ???
no one ASKS for the rapemesuite.
no one requests pool boy in room service without verbalizing it aloud.
when she requested a key and was advised there were none-- she should a split with bells on her ass. OR rigged a keep you out device on her door so as to make it less easy for the rapist to enter her room.
but we all have shouda woulda coulda advice retrospectively.
women do not walk around with a come rape me sign on our backs. nor do we want uninvited random sex with someone who prolly has enough extras to pass around without help.
had it been a male awakened by a rapist, i am sure the situation would be repaired immediately

[JPA Cate]

So, one takeaway from this is to NEVER accept a room you cannot lock. Man or woman, just don't. Arrange to double up with another customer, if necessary.

We'll none of us know, ever, the entire back story to this incident, and I've had some horrid notions, like maybe it was pre-arranged, maybe even paid for by the local, like the key's been paid for by him, to be "missing,or the lock broken. The only worthwhile question to answer is "what if this happens to me?" Plan a strategy for the situation. Okay, i'll sleep out here in the reception area, then. Or, Mary Lou, can we bunk together tonight? Or any other d--n strategy to keep yourself safe.

And, since you want to enjoy the expensive learn to sail holiday you contracted for, your solution needs to keep you safe to do that. I'm very strongly in favor of self defense courses for women: she might have been able to fight him off or get away from him if that were part of her repertoire. However, i think what I wrote first, pretty much covers it: NEVER ACCEPT A ROOM YOU CANNOT SECURE.

In your own home, practice the chair against the door trick, see if you can make it work.

Ann

By the way, there are some places where especially blonde tourists are considered fair game. Some men in foreign countries have been exposed to American porn showing blonde females having sex with donkeys. This can generate the idea that American women will have sex with donkeys, why not them? This fact is one good reason to behave modestly and with discretion. "the rules" are different in foreign countries.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

By the way, there are some places where especially blonde tourists are considered fair game. Some men in foreign countries have been exposed to American porn showing blonde females having sex with donkeys. This can generate the idea that American women will have sex with donkeys, why not them? This fact is one good reason to behave modestly and with discretion. "the rules" are different in foreign countries.

Ok...now I'm scarred for life

[angelfish2]

Me too, Celestialsailor. I will never be the same.

Rape has got to be one of the most terrible things and I feel so sorry for this gal. To my way of thinking, it doesn't matter what the circumstances are. It's horrible no matter what. And I agree, never sleep in an un-locked room...never, never, never!

[zboss]

Originally Posted by zeehag

Zboss, if a woman is asleep in her bed and someone rudely insists on laying on her, it is not something invited. it is not something wanted nor even considered as acceptable behavior.. . if anyone states they were wakened by a strange uninvited body lying on .... then what would your appropriate reaction and response actually be?? spozing the woman was your wife., would you still diss her as you are doing the victim in htis situation? would your response still be as inappropriate as it was ?? many of you clown males have verbalized essentially that she should have laid back and enjoyed it.
wtf are you ???
no one ASKS for the rapemesuite.
no one requests pool boy in room service without verbalizing it aloud.
when she requested a key and was advised there were none-- she should a split with bells on her ass. OR rigged a keep you out device on her door so as to make it less easy for the rapist to enter her room.
but we all have shouda woulda coulda advice retrospectively.
women do not walk around with a come rape me sign on our backs. nor do we want uninvited random sex with someone who prolly has enough extras to pass around without help.
had it been a male awakened by a rapist, i am sure the situation would be repaired immediately

There is no denying that the caribbean has a growing crime problem, IMO brought on by a lack of proper mental healthcare facilities, but do you expect that everyone should just be taken at their word?

If so I disagree with you.

How do we know this wasn't a exactly that... a drunken tryst gone wrong when the lady decided that maybe she didn't want to bring home a baby to daddy? Or to maybe a venereal disease? Its not like that doesn't happen. Crazy cougars go down to the caribbean all the time to seek out daddy.

Seriously, just because there was an accusation doesn't make it fact.

Having had a very close relative go through almost this exact same scenario in the caribbean, while I was there, I think gives me a bit more perspective in the matter. In our case, the accused was caught and sentenced to two years but not before a trial in which my relative was dragged through the proverbial fire.

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by zboss

There is no denying that the caribbean has a growing crime problem, IMO brought on by a lack of proper mental healthcare facilities, but do you expect that everyone should just be taken at their word?

If so I disagree with you.

How do we know this wasn't a exactly that... a drunken tryst gone wrong when the lady decided that maybe she didn't want to bring home a baby to daddy? Or to maybe a venereal disease? Its not like that doesn't happen. Crazy cougars go down to the caribbean all the time to seek out daddy.

Seriously, just because there was an accusation doesn't make it fact.

Having had a very close relative go through almost this exact same scenario in the caribbean, while I was there, I think gives me a bit more perspective in the matter. In our case, the accused was caught and sentenced to two years but not before a trial in which my relative was dragged through the proverbial fire.

and so you choose to diss her and try her for your thoughts , just based on YOUR EXPERIENCES, not on her own merit?
wow.
so you think all except your friend are lying cheating whores looking for a tryst ???
i am sooo impressed.
NOT

why do you disbelieve that folks can actually be honest--is it because you are not honest????? or is it because you believe women are not honest--and is that due to lies from your face or the lies from others.. there is a lot to learn in this mess--most of it how folks are within themselves. reponses reflect attitude towards women.
interesting, isnt it.