Woman on "learn to sail vacation" raped. St Lucia seriously needs a wake-up call.

[pickpaul]

Originally Posted by first wind

not all mentally ill people are just peaceful simpletons that fall prey to the evils of society, you know. that's just as inaccurate a stereotype as thinking all mentally ill people are crazed lunatics.

Complete straw man argument. I never said all. I simply stated the truth that that the mentally ill are far more often victims than perpetrators in terms of violence.

[pickpaul]

Originally Posted by first wind

ummmm no? if i hadn't have put the grin at the end of the comment, i'd have gotten criticism about the fact that i was meanly making fun of a previous post in a earlier part of the thread. i put the grin there, trying to make my comment a little more lighthearted and i upset people's feelings because i'm just not sensitive enough to the serious nature of the discussion. you just can't win.

No? So upsetting rape victims by joking in a thread about a horrific crime they experienced is too hard? Statistically there are many victims on this site.

It's easy to "win". Just don't joke or make lighthearted comments about rape.

[pickpaul]

Originally Posted by first wind

it's not sexist at all because that kind of thing happens to guys, too. i can't tell you how many times, when i was younger and a bit rougher looking, i would get pulled over, while riding my motorcycle, and harassed by cops for absolutely nothing while some older, professional type would fly by in his volvo and the cop wouldn't even look his way.

whether male of female, older, professional type people are looked on as being more trustworthy, stable, dependable, responsible, moral, and respectable.

How is the clear sexist double standard I outlined remotely connected to being profiled by the cops?

Do you think it ok for men to get wasted on alcohol but not women? That was your original assertion.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

Complete straw man argument. I never said all. I simply stated the truth that that the mentally ill are far more often victims than perpetrators in terms of violence.

no straw man. a valid response to your comment. did you actually read your own comment before posting to, perhaps, see how it would be taken? let me paraphrase:

'your expert GF obviously disagrees with you so you should shut up because mentally ill people are usually victims and not perpetrators'

so, i responded to that.

anyhow, i did discuss this thread, and specifically our side discussion, with my GF. she disagrees with your statement.

as she points out, it really depends on what you mean by mentally ill. you could stretch that term to include people with ADHD. there are lots of different types of mental illness and different degrees.

a lot of mentally ill people are so highly functional that you normally wouldn't realize they have an issue. they got diagnosed after they commit a violent crime; like one woman who is a patient where my GF works. she seems as normal as anyone but, she heard the voice of god talking to her and it told her to slit her mother's throat with a knife, so, she did.

but, this is a side tangent that is not relevant to anything but a side comment on another post that was relevant to the thread. maybe we can let it lie, now?

[first wind]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

No? So upsetting rape victims by joking in a thread about a horrific crime they experienced is too hard? Statistically there are many victims on this site.

It's easy to "win". Just don't joke or make lighthearted comments about rape.

welllllll. i wasn't really making a light hearted comment. you mistake me. i was taking a stab at what i consider to be a ridiculous comment from a previous post. you know, pointing out how ridiculous it was. but, i figured that someone would take offense at it. so, i added the grin to lighten the blow, so to speak.

there have been people close to me that have been raped. i do take it seriously. which you would know if you'd read some of my past posts in this thread. the grin was not in relation to the subject of rape nor could anyone following this thread read that and honestly think it was.

next time, i will just be blunt and not worry about trying to keep the peace. will that be better for you?

[first wind]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

How is the clear sexist double standard I outlined remotely connected to being profiled by the cops?

Do you think it ok for men to get wasted on alcohol but not women? That was your original assertion.

first, i think you are confusing me with someone else? however, i will rise to the bait.

it's not anymore morally right for men to get toasted than women. however, as i asserted before, this is the really for real world.

women are more vulnerable than men. fact of reality. the world is full of big meanies. fact of reality. if you get wasted you are more vulnerable to the big meanies. fact of reality. now, to put that all together for you:

that means that women who get wasted are more vulnerable than men. while it may be just as ok for women to get trashed than men, in the really for real world women are putting themselves at far greater risk than men are by doing this. note that you don't hear of a lot of big manly women with strap-ons going around to parties raping men.

so, sure, if you are a cute little girl, it's fine for you to go out, dressed like a hooker parading your sexuality around a bunch of strange men that you do not know, and get totally fubar. but, the big question is: is it wise?

please, refer back to the previous discussion about taking personal responsibility.

i mean, if i go walking through the heart of the deepest most dangerous hood at night and i get beat up, mugged, and almost killed, i could claim it's racist to imply that i can't walk down the same streets as a black man can. but, would anyone take me seriously? no. they'd say i was an idiot for walking through the heart of the deepest most dangerous hood at night.

seriously, where are the billy goats gruff when you need them?

[first wind]

Originally Posted by pickpaul

How is the clear sexist double standard I outlined remotely connected to being profiled by the cops?

Do you think it ok for men to get wasted on alcohol but not women? That was your original assertion.

ok. i had to look back to see where this was coming from. so, to answer you with words from my GF, it's not sexist. it has nothing to do with being a man or a woman. it has everything to do with your behavior, image, or life choices. lawyers get people off all the time by questioning credibility, in this way.

what i was getting at, by my example, is that i am a man. i have been judged poorly compared to another man based off of stereotypical image based off of the behaviors of other people that look or seem like me...younger, non-professional, biker types.

thus, the cops looked at me, as a young biker, and think i'm a clubber out for no good.

they look at some older professional guy in a volvo and think he is a great guy incapable of wrong doing.

so, they have pulled me over for absolutely nothing while ignoring the other type of guy who is actually breaking the law (speeding being illegal).

thus, indicating that it's not a sexist issue but, one of image related to behavior patterns and life choices.

see the path of logic, there?

interestingly enough, when older professional yuppies took up riding motorcycles to get that image, things got better for those of us who were real bikers. cops couldn't id the actual professional older guys from us 'biker trash' all that easily.



now, can we stop this side discussion stuff? i don't see how picking apart people's valid points using PC tweezers is making this discussion more valuable. clearly it is clouding any worth that is contained in this thread.

what's valuable, here, is to see what happened and discuss how to keep it from happening to others in the sailing community. that's the whole value, here.

[pickpaul]

Originally Posted by first wind

no straw man. a valid response to your comment. did you actually read your own comment before posting to, perhaps, see how it would be taken? let me paraphrase:

'your expert GF obviously disagrees with you so you should shut up because mentally ill people are usually victims and not perpetrators'

so, i responded to that.

anyhow, i did discuss this thread, and specifically our side discussion, with my GF. she disagrees with your statement.

as she points out, it really depends on what you mean by mentally ill. you could stretch that term to include people with ADHD. there are lots of different types of mental illness and different degrees.

a lot of mentally ill people are so highly functional that you normally wouldn't realize they have an issue. they got diagnosed after they commit a violent crime; like one woman who is a patient where my GF works. she seems as normal as anyone but, she heard the voice of god talking to her and it told her to slit her mother's throat with a knife, so, she did.

but, this is a side tangent that is not relevant to anything but a side comment on another post that was relevant to the thread. maybe we can let it lie, now?

Please don't paraphrase me, quote me.

Your sister is wrong too then. Seems like something anyone in the mental health field would know but please share this information with her.

From hhs.gov

Myth: People with mental health problems are violent and unpredictable.
Fact: The vast majority of people with mental health problems are no more likely to be violent than anyone else. Most people with mental illness are not violent and only 3%-5% of violent acts can be attributed to individuals living with a serious mental illness. In fact, people with severe mental illnesses are over 10 times more likely to be victims of violent crime than the general population. You probably know someone with a mental health problem and don't even realize it, because many people with mental health problems are highly active and productive members of our communities.

https://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/

[JPA Cate]

Let's bring this thread back to what might possibly do some cruisers some good, during times when they are travelling off the boat.

First, I would like on behalf of the women on CF, to say how sad and angry I am that one of our sisters has been attacked in this soul disturbing way. Her life has been changed forever.

All of us should be aware that we may be at risk, especially in areas foreign to us. Rape by men of women is considered fun, normal, desirable in some places in the world, no matter how despicable we think it is, it is a somewhat frequent occurrence.

We, each of us, is responsible for how he or she will behave when attacked, true, but if we want to avoid the attack, then let's look at how we can protect ourselves.

We have self defense courses available to us, but we also have passive measures, as well.

1. Recognize the absence of a lock as a potentially unacceptable risk. Know that without the lock, you may be endangered, and already have a plan b and c, before you arrive at unfamiliar lodging. Think about providing yourself with door wedges, raising a fuss at registration, refusing a door without a lock, doubling up with someone else, and whatever else you can come up with.

2. Consider the whole issue of acceptable vs. unacceptable risk seriously and realistically, and then decide how you are going to handle it. There are many risks in life. Then, apply your thoughts.

Ann

[MarkJ]

There are several very inexpensive portable hotel locks, about $12 at Home Depot.

(Wait 3 seconds for someone to say: "yeah but if someone really wants to get in the will. Won't stop a rapist with an AK47, explosives and a bandana..."

2


1.... )

[Jason Flare]

Originally Posted by first wind

sure. that's fine. you do realize this isn't a court of law and we really aren't delivering any legal verdicts, right?

I do realize that and am thankful that that is the case.

I appreciate your honesty.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by MarkJ

There are several very inexpensive portable hotel locks, about $12 at Home Depot.

(Wait 3 seconds for someone to say: "yeah but if someone really wants to get in the will. Won't stop a rapist with an AK47, explosives and a bandana..."

2


1.... )

that's a helpful bit of information that i hadn't been aware of. i will have to check out home despot's site. interested to see how they work. might be good to have one on hand in case there is ever a need.

[first wind]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Let's bring this thread back to what might possibly do some cruisers some good, during times when they are travelling off the boat.

First, I would like on behalf of the women on CF, to say how sad and angry I am that one of our sisters has been attacked in this soul disturbing way. Her life has been changed forever.

All of us should be aware that we may be at risk, especially in areas foreign to us. Rape by men of women is considered fun, normal, desirable in some places in the world, no matter how despicable we think it is, it is a somewhat frequent occurrence.

We, each of us, is responsible for how he or she will behave when attacked, true, but if we want to avoid the attack, then let's look at how we can protect ourselves.

We have self defense courses available to us, but we also have passive measures, as well.

1. Recognize the absence of a lock as a potentially unacceptable risk. Know that without the lock, you may be endangered, and already have a plan b and c, before you arrive at unfamiliar lodging. Think about providing yourself with door wedges, raising a fuss at registration, refusing a door without a lock, doubling up with someone else, and whatever else you can come up with.

2. Consider the whole issue of acceptable vs. unacceptable risk seriously and realistically, and then decide how you are going to handle it. There are many risks in life. Then, apply your thoughts.

Ann

that's good. i would add to that, making sure you have good situational awareness. be aware of your surroundings. both the physical environment and the people in it. notice if people are armed. if people seem to be hanging around without reason or if they are paying undue attention. make sure you have good visibility and don't set yourself up for an ambush...the whole dark alley thing. make sure you have an escape route but, make sure you have a defensible position to take, if the need should arrive.

serious combat training is great. i say combat to differentiate between serious SHTF stuff and more sportive martial arts. there is a difference.

also, many places outlaw the carrying of weapons to some degree. canes are legal everywhere including on airplanes. it also happens to be true that they are excellent weapons. properly trained, a cane wielding fighter has it all over the guy with a knife. i own a combat cane and often have it with me.

don't mistake me when i say combat cane. canes that conceal blades...sword canes...are both illegal in most places and pretty poor weapons. cane techniques exist in a number of systems and techniques for swords, axes, and a number of other weapons work excellently with a cane. canes with a hook on one end, instead of a knob, are the best, in my opinion, however, the french cane fighting system, les cannes, is designed around a straight cane with a knob on one end.

if you choose a cane with a hook, choose one that is steam bent out of a straight piece of wood. mine is steam bent hickory.

also, as with any weapon: it is dangerous to carry a weapon you do not have the training to use and it is also dangerous to draw a weapon you do not intend to use. using a weapon for intimidation purposes without intent (or ability) to actually use it will get you hurt or even killed.

plenty of info about cane use for self defense for those interested. learn to walk properly with a cane and no one would even have any idea it's for more than walking.