West Marine Restructures Debt

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I believe it is a very different market, though the dollar volume may be up. Just looking at cruising sailboats they are much larger than they used to be, with vastly more complicated and expensive systems that cost a lot of money. So, as I mentioned above, there may be fewer cruising boats in some places but the value of those boats and all their gear is vastly much higher than in the past. Plus, a lot of the stuff these modern cruisers use isn't well suited to being mass marketed by West Marine. Think modern batteries and charging systems. Sure, they might sell some of this stuff in their catalogs, but the people needing the gear are likely to require lots of expertise to install and maintain the whole system. Those of us on here who do this stuff ourselves are the minority. A West Marine store can't afford to hire the people that would be needed to properly sell a lot of the stuff that generates big revenues. While at the other end of the scale, there are huge markups on stuff like clothing and water toys and they sell in large quantities and can be sold by the lowest paid employees available. Probably lots more profit in that than trying to cater to weirdo cruisers who want a specific part in a specific size. I don't have the numbers at my disposal but speaking to people in the know just the sport fishing business vastly dwarfs the cruising sailboat industry. There are single fishing boat factories that churn out more boats in a year than all the cruising sailboat manufacturers in the world combined.

All good points, and a great post. I assumed West Marine's customer base was cruising boats (power and sail), daysailer and sail racers, fishing boaters, ski boaters, and other recreational power boaters (e.g., pontoon boats). I would be happy to be corrected, but I don't have the impression that whole market is down overall.

[CaptTom]

Interesting observations on the current state and future of cruising.

Around here, the marinas are full. But they're full of high-end Euro-style "trophy" boats which never leave the dock, and ridiculously over-rigged day fishing boats. How many outboards, pricy reels and LED lights do you really need to catch a fish?

I haven't really seen the reduction in people out cruising. In fact it seemed to pick up quite a bit post-pandemic. But now that you mention it, I don't know anyone who does the annual snowbird migration anymore. I used to know several. I do think fuel and marina costs are having an impact there.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

Interesting observations on the current state and future of cruising.

Around here, the marinas are full. (Stuff deleted)

Agree with your post overall, tho from several other threads, some have been bemoaning the replacement of marinas with residential developments. So, full marinas could be compatible with reduced boaters if there are fewer marinas.

[Noahr]

Defender has “gone downhill” as well since being bought out. Their “new” website is terrible and they no longer offer free shipping on orders under $100. Since they discontinued their annual $50 membership club.

[Cheyne]

Defender also started using UPS Surepost for their cheap shipping option. I didn't notice this since they had always used UPS Ground. Problem here in Urbanna, VA is that without a PO Box they Post Office will kick back the package and will not hold it for General Delievery.

Cheyne

Originally Posted by Noahr

Defender has “gone downhill” as well since being bought out. Their “new” website is terrible and they no longer offer free shipping on orders under $100. Since they discontinued their annual $50 membership club.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Noahr

Defender has “gone downhill” as well since being bought out. Their “new” website is terrible and they no longer offer free shipping on orders under $100. Since they discontinued their annual $50 membership club.

Even with the membership they never used to offer free shipping at all from what I remember.

[pesarsten]

Even WM's ship to store service and ship to home is rather poor. Place your order and they charge you immediately. No tracking information is given and several weeks may go by before the item is shipped. Even my Ebay purchases have tracking info provided and proper notifications sent.

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

I have a West 3 miles from my house, but can't recall if I've ever bought anything there. Mail order, Wal Mart, or (my preferred choice), save up orders and buy at Fawcetts on my next trip to Annapolis

And that's part of the problem right there. Yes, WM is more expensive than most other places. But do you really want to lose your local store, that's there if you really need something right away? I don't.

I support WM when I can. I do buy all my winterizing antifreeze there, WM is one of the few places that has it, and I'm not going to save much by having it shipped to home.

[CaptTom]

Originally Posted by Rohan

...But do you really want to lose your local store, that's there if you really need something right away?...

I see your point, and I generally agree. The problem is, when I need something right away, WM generally doesn't have it.

In their defense, WM might just giving in to market demand. Perhaps the average boater nowadays isn't looking for maintenance and repair parts. They're looking to make a fashion statement. To prove to their dockmates that they can spend big on designer clothing, new reels and Yeti coolers.

I used to scoff at WM going in this direction, and way from "real boater" stuff, but I'm starting to realize they may be right. Maybe I'm the one who's out of touch.

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

In their defense, WM might just giving in to market demand. Perhaps the average boater nowadays isn't looking for maintenance and repair parts. They're looking to make a fashion statement. To prove to their dockmates that they can spend big on designer clothing, new reels and Yeti coolers.

Toward the back they still have plenty of batteries, clamps, sacrificial anodes, dock lines, oil extraction kits, etc. The larger stores have a large section with fishing gear too. The flashy stuff like Yeti coolers or fancy key rings are all in the front.

It is a good place to browse for ideas. And the guys at the counter generally are sailors themselves and really know their stuff. So I shop there. I would just shop there more often if the prices were more reasonable.

[Kettlewell]

In their defense, WM might just giving in to market demand. Perhaps the average boater nowadays isn't looking for maintenance and repair parts.

I think also there is a huge shift in how people purchase all sorts of stuff today. I know that when I need something specialized often my first move is to go online and order from Amazon or a specialty retailer. For younger people your products might as well not exist if they aren't available online. My son almost never sets foot into a store except for groceries, and he orders a lot of them online too. Personally, I am old enough to want to try on most clothing, but many people just order several sizes and then return the rest. I suspect this is the case for a lot of boaters too. Rather than go to WM and hunt around for a shackle, only to find they don't have the one I wanted, my time is better spent ordering it online, getting exactly what I want, spending less, and usually having better customer support too. WM stores vary a lot in what they stock, how well run they are, how knowledgeable the staff is, and how helpful they are. My local one is totally geared toward the small local outboard powered fishing and ski boats that dominate the area, which makes sense.

[Kettlewell]

So this thread brings up an interesting question. What are the marine store alternatives to WM that are better? I mentioned Hamilton Marine in Maine, and they do mail order too. Some have mentioned Fisheries Supply--how are they for mailorder? Apparently Defender has gone way downhill based on several mentions in this thread. Any others worth giving business to?

[rslifkin]

Defender has still been fine to do business with, but their prices on a lot of things aren't as good anymore. Generally my orders come from Defender, Fisheries Supply, Go2Marine (the recreational storefront for LFS Marine, which is a big fishing supplier), Marine Parts Source, and occasionally others. Who I order from depends on what I'm buying, as some suppliers have better pricing than others on certain items.

[JBP]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

So this thread brings up an interesting question. What are the marine store alternatives to WM that are better? I mentioned Hamilton Marine in Maine, and they do mail order too. Some have mentioned Fisheries Supply--how are they for mailorder? Apparently Defender has gone way downhill based on several mentions in this thread. Any others worth giving business to?

Jamestown Distributors/ Total Boat.

SailRite

RigRite

Rigging Only aka https://www.riggingandhardware.com

Walmart and EBay are alternatives to Amazon.

[lestersails]

I use Amazon the same way I use Travelocity. I search the site for a product, carefully look at that non-sponsored products, pick what I am interested in, and then go directly to the company or if they don't sell it, other retailers. If the price is anywhere close to Amazon, I buy it from someplace other than Amazon. In many cases, the same product is available from a manufacturer's direct sales site at the same price.
I don't want to feed the beast. Especially considering their brutal anticompetitive practices.