West Marine Restructures Debt

[CaptTom]

OK, while we're on that subject, my old WM 310 RIB is out back right now, getting a minor water leak patched (for about the 3rd time.) The starboard tube leaks a little air and needs to be topped off every few days, maybe once or twice a week. It's starting to look a bit faded, but otherwise held up pretty well. I bought it used and it's been sitting in the sun for a good part of each summer for the past 10 years or so. Overall, I have absolutely no complaints.

I'm seriously thinking of going back to WM for my next dinghy. The only other place around which has them in stock, in the showroom, has only one brand and it's a lot more expensive. I would like to see what I'm buying in person for this purchase, although I'd go mail order if I could find a good deal on a model I knew was adequate for my needs.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

OK, while we're on that subject, my old WM 310 RIB is out back right now, getting a minor water leak patched (for about the 3rd time.) The starboard tube leaks a little air and needs to be topped off every few days, maybe once or twice a week. It's starting to look a bit faded, but otherwise held up pretty well. I bought it used and it's been sitting in the sun for a good part of each summer for the past 10 years or so. Overall, I have absolutely no complaints.

I'm seriously thinking of going back to WM for my next dinghy. The only other place around which has them in stock, in the showroom, has only one brand and it's a lot more expensive. I would like to see what I'm buying in person for this purchase, although I'd go mail order if I could find a good deal on a model I knew was adequate for my needs.

Whatever RIB you buy even if Hypalon, get a cover for it and keep it covered when not is use. This approach will siginifcantly extend the lifetime of the RIB.

[Kettlewell]

OT, but Hamilton Marine from Maine is a real marine outfit with several stores. They have a lot of commercial fishing gear in their stores, and unadvertised stuff on sale.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

OT, but Hamilton Marine from Maine is a real marine outfit with several stores. They have a lot of commercial fishing gear in their stores, and unadvertised stuff on sale.

I have had nothing but problems with them, the few times I used them. I purchased foam hatch gasket and while packing it, used packing tape to hold it in a tight coil. To remove the tape would tear the foam. Their shipping times were terrible.

[psk125]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

Actually, my biggest complaint about WM is the lack of inventory in many stores. I can understand not carrying everything in every store, but I often run into the problem that something is out of stock that is supposed to be on the shelf next to its label. Or, they might only have one or two of something I need six of. Defeats the purpose of spending a bit more in order to get it today.

Agree heartily. We're located about midway between two WM stores. One has more stuff, the closer one is often out of stock. Lots of hooks & labels with no goods. If it isn't going to be a dependable source, Jamestown Distributors or Defender is. Article in the paper today quoted AAA as saying it costs 81 cents a mile to drive a car. A 20 mile round-trip starts to make paying shipping costs more sensible. Not to mention the time lost in the hassle of traffic.

[CaptTom]

Hamilton is a great option if you've got one nearby. They do mail-order, but they are basically a local B&M chain. The owner is a real boater. They keep real boat stuff in stock, heavy on the commercial fishing side of things. Not a lot of "boating fashion" stuff. My kind of place.

[gonesail]

Inventory is a big problem at our West Marine as well.

[MicHughV]

Here's my 2c.

From my point of view the sailboat market and general boating market is not what it was in it's heyday...70's, 80's and even 90's

Come autumn time, it was not usually to see dozens of boats heading south to the B'mas and beyond every day.
That was then....these days, it's rare to see a sailboat heading south.

The cause ???..who knows....high boat prices....restrictive anchorages.... mooring fields...high cost of fuel, exorbitant marina costs, etc...but it seems a lot of people have said.....this is not fun anymore..and have thrown in the towel.

The marine industry, WM, etc, have in turn also had to deal with this. If you have no customers...you have no business.

This likely explains the move to the clothes boutique, fishing gear, etc...instead of marine hardware.

Add in, entities like Amazon, where you can find pretty much anything online, often many things to compare prices, etc, and stores like WM simply can't compete. Amazon delivers right to your door, pretty much anything and everything.

I see this trend in a lot of stores. Walmart, etc, all have the self checkout stations. Cash register operators are becoming a rare breed.

I think WM has seen better days. For a long time, they were the "go to" store for marine hardware, but that is not the case anymore. I can buy most any stainless steel fastener hardware from my local hardware store at better prices than WM...and more conveniently located to boot.

I don't think WM has adapted to the times to their detriment.

[sailingharry]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

Here's my 2c.

From my point of view the sailboat market and general boating market is not what it was in it's heyday...70's, 80's and even 90's

Come autumn time, it was not usually to see dozens of boats heading south to the B'mas and beyond every day.
That was then....these days, it's rare to see a sailboat heading south.

You hear this a lot. But I hear in Marathon, if you don't have a mooring by November, you won't get in for the winter. Slips at marinas all over are getting harder and harder to find. Moorings and anchorages in New England are getting more and more crowded. Even if these boats aren't being actively sailed, it still sounds like there are more and more boats and they all need maintenance. Somehow it doesn't add up.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by sailingharry

You hear this a lot. But I hear in Marathon, if you don't have a mooring by November, you won't get in for the winter. Slips at marinas all over are getting harder and harder to find. Moorings and anchorages in New England are getting more and more crowded. Even if these boats aren't being actively sailed, it still sounds like there are more and more boats and they all need maintenance. Somehow it doesn't add up.

I have to agree. It’s significantly more crowded with boats now than it used to be.

There is no way to get slips. The marinas are all full.

There is also no hope of scheduling service on a boat unless you are doing it yourself.

[Island Time O25]

They only have themselves to blame. When I started shopping there about 20 years ago they had competitive prices on par with local chandleries and decent in-stock selection. Once they drove local chandleries out of business they started hiking up their prices insanely.

I needed a ladder for the swimming platform I was installing. Theirs was $329 and not in stock with 4-6 weeks delivery timeframe. Amazon had exactly the same ladder for $139 incl delivery. With such pricing model it is a miracle WM is still in business.

In the past 10 years or so the only items I bought there were all orange stickered ones which had add'l discounts. Without those discounts even the orange sticker items are overpriced. Sperry dock shoes for $89 and orange stickered to $59 when any outlet store has exactly the same ones for $39-$49.

[rlynch03]

Originally Posted by Madehn

I find them overpriced and their staff not very knowledgeable. I literally stood for 1/2 an hour in the Kemah Tx west marine with my checkbook in hand trying to get someone to answer questions about a chartplotter and radar. Ended up going home totally aggravated and bought 13k worth of electronics on line. Their prices are quite high also. Basically I will only go there if the local chandler and local hardware don’t have it and I have to have it today. Otherwise just not worth dealing with their prices and staff. Incidentally this is supposed to be one of their larger flagship stores. Frankly I don’t see them in business much longer.

Any store can struggle to have a person or two not well versed at the time you visit the store. I like the West Marine stores for many of the reasons mentioned already. Return policy, product support, our store is very well stocked, their sales are really competitively priced and they do price match. They are down the street from me and the store stays pretty busy. Fawcetts is a completely different type of boat hardware store which I like them for what they are as well. If all of our store fronts close down around the country I am not sure what we will be left with.

It is good to support the local employees and stores in your area.

[Kettlewell]

Moorings and anchorages in New England are getting more and more crowded.

Compared to when? I've been sailing in New England for more than 40 years and the places I go are significantly less crowded than they were back in say the 90s. For example, I was in Cuttyhunk several times this summer and several times I was the only boat at anchor in the north part of the pond. That would have been unheard of decades ago. Similarly, I have anchored all by myself in Tarpaulin Cove on several occasions in July in recent years--impossible in the past! I anchored in Vineyard Haven several times and there was tons of room with only a few dinghies at the dinghy docks. I went into Eel Pond at Woods Hole and there were many empty moorings and I just picked up one for a night. I think marinas may be a different situation in some places, but again in Cuttyhunk in July and August there were many empty slips on weekends when in the past boats would have been rafted on the end slips. Same thing with the moorings there. I was in Newport for the boat show recently and it used to be you couldn't find a spot at the dinghy docks, and yet I checked several of them and they were almost empty this year. I went to the Newport Maritime Center near the Ann St. dinghy docks on a Friday and I was the only person there. Chatted up the harbormaster there for a bit and never saw another soul. That place was bustling in previous years. I routinely pass by several large boatyard/marina complexes in Narragansett Bay to get out to the ocean--they all had empty dock spaces during the high season, yet lots of boats stayed out of the water under cover all summer long. Maybe it is different other places

[lestersails]

My West Marine is pretty sad. Low stock and a clerk that knows little or nothing about the merchandise. But I am skeptical much of it is a declining marine market overall. It is more related to corporate greed and private equity. Walmart, HomeDepot, etc. destroyed a lot of independents, Amazon is destroying even the chains (like West Marine).
Remember when Home Depot started - they had electricians in the electrical section and plumbers in the plumbing aisle? Once they ran the local shops out of business, they replaced them with people who know little and care less. Amazon has substituted efficient delivery services for advice and the ability to actually see and touch the product. And those pathetic, manipulated user reviews are no substitute for knowledgeable staff. And don't forget that Amazon started as a book discounter. Once the regional booksellers were bankrupt, the prices zoomed up. And private equity ruins what Amazon hasn't (yet).
The old monopolistic scheme - invest a lot of money, destroy the market, lower wages, jack up prices. I really wish there was something other than capitalism that worked better.

[Kettlewell]

But I am skeptical much of it is a declining marine market overall.

I believe it is a very different market, though the dollar volume may be up. Just looking at cruising sailboats they are much larger than they used to be, with vastly more complicated and expensive systems that cost a lot of money. So, as I mentioned above, there may be fewer cruising boats in some places but the value of those boats and all their gear is vastly much higher than in the past. Plus, a lot of the stuff these modern cruisers use isn't well suited to being mass marketed by West Marine. Think modern batteries and charging systems. Sure, they might sell some of this stuff in their catalogs, but the people needing the gear are likely to require lots of expertise to install and maintain the whole system. Those of us on here who do this stuff ourselves are the minority. A West Marine store can't afford to hire the people that would be needed to properly sell a lot of the stuff that generates big revenues. While at the other end of the scale, there are huge markups on stuff like clothing and water toys and they sell in large quantities and can be sold by the lowest paid employees available. Probably lots more profit in that than trying to cater to weirdo cruisers who want a specific part in a specific size. I don't have the numbers at my disposal but speaking to people in the know just the sport fishing business vastly dwarfs the cruising sailboat industry. There are single fishing boat factories that churn out more boats in a year than all the cruising sailboat manufacturers in the world combined.