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02-09-2010, 16:07
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#16
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Boat: Research vessel for a university, retired now.
Posts: 10,406
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I would like to dump some dye in the local sewage treatment facilities during a large storm event and watch the entire SF Bay turn dark blue. What some inconsiderate boaters put in the water is infinitesimally small by comparison.
That same money would be better spent modernizing municipal waste treatment plants than harassing boaters...most of which know better anyway.
Going after the small fish is truly a waste of our tax money.
__________________
David
Life begins where land ends.
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02-09-2010, 16:10
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David M
I would like to dump some dye in the local sewage treatment facilities during a large storm event and watch the entire SF Bay turn dark blue. What some inconsiderate boaters put in the water is infinitesimally small by comparison.
That same money would be better spent modernizing municipal waste treatment plants than harassing boaters...most of which know better anyway.
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AMEN!!!!!
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02-09-2010, 17:47
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#18
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CLOD
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: being planted in Jacksonville Fl
Boat: none
Posts: 20,422
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How much extra taxes are you willing to pay so that the major cities can split out the sewer and storm runoff piping?
Most of the water that bypasses the treatment plant is after the start of the storm and most (I didn't say all) sewage in the lines went to the WWTP prior to the by-pass.
The big difference is that during a storm most people aren't out in the bay to see anything. Meanwhile boats are very visable.
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02-09-2010, 18:48
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Boat: 40' Silverton Aftcabin with twin Crusaders
Posts: 1,791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas
How much extra taxes are you willing to pay so that the major cities can split out the sewer and storm runoff piping?
Most of the water that bypasses the treatment plant is after the start of the storm and most (I didn't say all) sewage in the lines went to the WWTP prior to the by-pass.
The big difference is that during a storm most people aren't out in the bay to see anything. Meanwhile boats are very visable.
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Lets not bang the "how much tax" drum again. There is more poop added to our water every day by birds, BIG BIRDS than the total from boats. And then we have the municipalities!
FOGGY
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05-09-2010, 14:43
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto On
Boat: Bristol 40
Posts: 64
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Foggy,
What did people do to you to make you sound so aggressive in your posts?!
The tone seems very unpleasant, here on the forum - including sneaking in some personal politics ....!
Let's be friendly and tolerant. Thanks!
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05-09-2010, 15:10
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#21
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: La Ciudad de la Misión Didacus de Alcalá en Alta California, Virreinato de Nueva España
Boat: Cal 20
Posts: 20,595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas
How much extra taxes are you willing to pay so that the major cities can split out the sewer and storm runoff piping?
Most of the water that bypasses the treatment plant is after the start of the storm and most (I didn't say all) sewage in the lines went to the WWTP prior to the by-pass.
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The storm and sewer lines in most cities are separate. The problem is a lot of residences tied their roof and footing drains into the sewer line. Saved on spending to dig another trench out to the street, lay pipe and make the connection to the storm line.
Although some residences predate the existance of storm lines or rules regarding their use (it costs cities to process sewage, not so mch runoff, so rules about tying drain lines to sewer lines appeared pretty quickly after sewage treatment started lo those many decades ago), most do not. Thus municipalities would have good grounds to force most homeowners to reroute their drains, but it wouldn't wash well with voters since in many instances the incorrect installation was done prior to the current owner's occupancy or by builders who did not tell the owner. So mostly the rules get enforced during rebuilds, and major upgrades and of course new construction in areas where the inspectors are paying attention.
__________________
Num Me Vexo?
For all of your celestial navigation questions: https://navlist.net/
A house is but a boat so poorly built and so firmly run aground no one would think to try and refloat it.
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06-09-2010, 08:31
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#22
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Hull Diver
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under a boat, in a marina, in the San Francisco Bay
Posts: 5,436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David M
I would like to dump some dye in the local sewage treatment facilities during a large storm event and watch the entire SF Bay turn dark blue. What some inconsiderate boaters put in the water is infinitesimally small by comparison.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foggysail
There is more poop added to our water every day by birds, BIG BIRDS than the total from boats. And then we have the municipalities!
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Sooooo tired of hearing the same old worn-out arguments attempting to deflect responsibility away from boaters. Don't pump your head overboard. It ain't cool, one boat can pollute an entire marina and people have to work in the water. If you don't like municipalities releasing sewage into our waterways, do something about it. But justifying boating pollution by saying the cities and marine animals can do it so we should be able to as well is just really dumb.
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06-09-2010, 10:17
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#23
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Boat: Research vessel for a university, retired now.
Posts: 10,406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fstbttms
Sooooo tired of hearing the same old worn-out arguments attempting to deflect responsibility away from boaters. Don't pump your head overboard. It ain't cool, one boat can pollute an entire marina and people have to work in the water. If you don't like municipalities releasing sewage into our waterways, do something about it. But justifying boating pollution by saying the cities and marine animals can do it so we should be able to as well is just really dumb.
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I am not justifying boaters pumping their poop overboard. In fact I called those boaters who do so as "inconsiderate".
My point is that if money is going to be spent, then go after what is going to give you the most bang for the buck and that is to get sewage municipalities to modernize their treatment facilities. Until this is done it's a waste of money to go after boaters.
__________________
David
Life begins where land ends.
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06-09-2010, 12:04
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 391
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Perhaps. But government feels it must always be SEEN 'doing something', even (especially) when what they are doing is pointless.
Discharges into Newport or Avalon harbors are very visible. Discharge from a pipe that runs a mile offshore isn't. And I recall being in Cat Harbor (for example) and watching the tide bring in all manner of ejecta from the head.
__________________
Healer52 / Lisa, Rick and Angel the Salty Dog
Currently on the hard, looking for a boat
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06-09-2010, 12:11
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#25
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CF Adviser
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YOG
Foggy,
What did people do to you to make you sound so aggressive in your posts?!
The tone seems very unpleasant, here on the forum - including sneaking in some personal politics ....!
Let's be friendly and tolerant. Thanks!
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Amen.
__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
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06-09-2010, 17:41
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles
Boat: Pearson 281
Posts: 684
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I refuse to have a holding tank. When in a populated harbor I use 100%compostable garbage bags (made with corn starch I believe) with a rock in it and pine kitty litter. These go into the trash ashore or overboard when we get offshore. When out away from folks I flush overboard. I was a bit startled chartering in the Virgins... no swim in the morning or after dinner for us. I agree in some basic consideration for other boaters or for the pressure on a crowded anchorage where the locals might not appreciate yachtie poop on the beach but beyond that could give a... well ya know.
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06-09-2010, 18:06
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,185
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Butler, I'm going out on a limb and saying your're not a scuba diver or at least you don't dive in harbors. As is normal, people generally don't care about a problem when it doesn't affect them.
I used to be pretty "whatever" about discharging overboard, but the more time I spend in the water the more my wife and daughter don't want me to catch some nasty water borne disease.
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06-09-2010, 18:32
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: North to Seattle
Boat: Cooper 416
Posts: 279
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The harbor will run yellow in Newport.
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06-09-2010, 18:40
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#29
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ohio
Boat: Now boatless :-(
Posts: 11,580
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Last year we were in Malaysia on a weekender in a marina.
My son and I were up early on the finger dock. We were looking at the fish and the crabs and the things you look at.
The couple next door woke up, one of them took a dump and discharged it right in front of us.
I mean, come on! We were in a marina with a full shower and toilet 100 meters away!
I think the 12 mile rule (or whatever it is) is over the top. Once in the river or the bay the amount of discharge from a boat is negligible. I do request guests bag the paper.
But for Pete's sake - when tied up at a dock - that's just wrong!
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06-09-2010, 18:53
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#30
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Moderator... short for Cat Wrangler
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Francisco
Boat: Cal 28 Flush Deck
Posts: 5,559
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yep. one miserable experience I remember is when we had guests aboard on of the old woodies... no holding tank on that puppy. You held it or bagged it if it was solid... We explained VERY clearly to our guests about marine toilets, placement of paper in the covered container, that the head was only for liquid use. That bags must be used for solid waste.
The husband somehow just *didn't* get it. So we are tied up to the dock at a friend's delta island. Right where everyone is sunbathing, skidooing, watersurfing etc. When our friend goes into the head and takes a nice sit... and lets nature take it's course. And then flushes. Straight into the very stagnant delta water we are sitting in. Within minutes the screaming begins as people scramble outta the water. Man. I never been so embarrassed. Or so mad. And the guy was like *what? what'd I do?*
Until we drug him out to the side of the dock and, as if her were a bad puppy, rubbed his nose in the mess he had set floating and made him fish it out and bag it... Of course no one swam again until the tide had cycled thru... and he was persona no grata the rest of the weekend. We left early, no surprise...
__________________
Sara
ain't what ya do, it's the way that ya do it...
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