New cruising restrictions in Georgia (USA)

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by Exile

My point is that the discharges you claim to have observed in WA and OR may not have been illegal if they were within 3 miles but not within NDZs, and Type I or II MSDs were being used. The NDZ in Puget Sound WA only came into existence in April 2018 afaik, and there are none in OR. Type 2 devices are allowed to discharge in BC anywhere beyond 1 mile from shore.

Gosh, at the risk of saying the obvious, I have spent time on quite a few boats in the course of my boating career which is something over 50 years. I have watched other skippers illegally dump their holding tank while I was aboard. I was on a boat that underwent a Coast Guard inspection and was cited for not having his overboard discharge valve closed and secure - in Puget Sound. Ask the Coast Guard how many citations they hand out per year for such violations. The rules are clear but enforcement is inconsistent at best. Ask marina operators how often they have had a problem with a boat dumping their holding tank at the dock and having other tenants complain? This stuff goes on all the time, whether you are aware of it or not. Now, I'm not disagreeing with others here that there are plenty of other offenders out there such as municipalities and commercial operators. Some creating much bigger issues than private boat owners. On the other hand I don't run a municipality, while I do operate cruising boat.

Now, as far as your repeated point about class 1 and class 2 treatment systems. You really only see the type 2 systems on bigger boats (at least bigger than I have ever owned ). And the type 1 systems are a vanishing breed. With more popular boating areas going to designated NDZ all the time, and the new Canadians rules not giving any advantage to class 1 installations - I don't see anyone installing them. Holding tanks and pump outs are really the future in inside waters in the US and Canada. Now I don't know anything about composting toilets, but they may acquire a following among the cruising set. Not my choice though.

[Exile]

Assuming I am simply unaware of illegal discharging being done "all the time," are you aware of any scientific evidence that it is harming the waters? I think that's more to the point of this thread. And if, as you suggest, it is unavoidable, how do NDZs help? There are other lengthy threads on this so no need to debate it here, but many people believe it is counterproductive since it discourages the added expense of installing Type 1 Lectrasan's. If you believe, and maybe correctly so, that there will always be people flouting the regs, then why would we want to discourage their use?

This is why you're reading such criticism of these so-called "environmental" rules & regs, and not because responsible cruisers don't share your exact same concerns.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

But then as now, The wealthy homeowners didn’t want to look at boats in their backyard

Yes, in the end, that does always seem to be the underlying, and primary, reason for all of these anchoring restrictions. Some rich guys who are one hundred per cent sure that they own all of the water they can see from their property, who are willing to write checks to politicians to make that belief a reality.

[skenn_ie]

Install a position-hold system ! If you're not anchored, you wouldn't be breaking the law !

[skenn_ie]

If I had a waterside property, I would be very happy to look out at some boats

[sdowney717]

Waterfront homeowners pay lots of tax monies and don't want to open their back door, sit in their backyard and have a constant progression of anchoring boats coming or going. I suppose they are ignorant and probably imagine such boat owners dumping their effluents into their water spaces and other garbage overboard. They also worry about them sneaking on shore and getting robbed or assaulted, or even just plain trespassing onto their property. Most people who are well off want privacy in what they think of as their space and view. And anchoring boats nearby threatens them. Probably I would not like my privacy becoming public, as it is forced on me if a boat is anchored near by.

They are going to think, why dont they go to a marina, and then will think they are poor slobs, like drifters or like bums, what did they call those people who illegally rode the railroads? Hobos. And in their 'back yards', yes they are going to feel imposed upon.

The violence of Waterworld comes to mind. Popular themes although not based in reality lurks in the back of the minds, because if that crime could happen, means it might happen. And the older the person gets the more worried they become about their security.

[Saleen411]

Originally Posted by sdowney717

Waterfront homeowners pay lots of tax monies and don't want to open their back door, sit in their backyard and have a constant progression of anchoring boats coming or going. I suppose they are ignorant and probably imagine such boat owners dumping their effluents into their water spaces and other garbage overboard. They also worry about them sneaking on shore and getting robbed or assaulted, or even just plain trespassing onto their property. Most people who are well off want privacy in what they think of as their space and view. And anchoring boats nearby threatens them. Probably I would not like my privacy becoming public, as it is forced on me if a boat is anchored near by.

They are going to think, why dont they go to a marina, and then will think they are poor slobs, like drifters or like bums, what did they call those people who illegally rode the railroads? Hobos. And in their 'back yards', yes they are going to feel imposed upon.

The violence of Waterworld comes to mind. Popular themes although not based in reality lurks in the back of the minds, because if that crime could happen, means it might happen.

I think if most boats just came and went without much ado there would be no problem most anywhere.

Add wild parties, blasting music, public nudity, public urination etc., then now you have a issue.

Actually, on second thought, no issue with the nudity thing if the gals are hot, but better to check it out first with a pair high powered binoculars before making any rash decisions.....just to be sure. Not that I would EVER do such a thing.

All kidding aside, noise and other issues are usually NOT the case in my area..... Most boaters here are quiet and respectful.

But SOME are uncooperative chronic public nuisances. They shouldn't be surprised when the marine equivalent of the Sheriff of Nottingham shows up to enforce the law. BTW, repeat offenders are subject to arrest. Our local Sheriff is usually more than happy to assist a homeowner in making a citizens arrest,...or so I'm told. .

[sdowney717]

Originally Posted by Saleen411

I think if most boats just came and went without much ado there would be no problem most anywhere.

Add wild parties, blasting music, public nudity, public urination etc., then now you have a problem.

Of course not always the case. But once a public nuisance, time to call the Sheriff of Nottingham. Repeat offenders are subject to arrest. Don't ask me how I know.

Yes there is all that too that you mentioned.
I have noticed with some older people, they are really worried about security of life and property beyond what younger people are. Maybe having lived longer, heard and seen more bad things and being weaker they are more easily threatened by the younger crowd and life generally. They just dont tolerate stuff happening as well as they used too. Some of them don't want visitors, especially ones they have no connections with, sometimes not even them.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by sdowney717

Waterfront homeowners pay lots of tax monies and don't want to open their back door, sit in their backyard and have a constant progression of anchoring boats coming or going. I suppose they are ignorant and probably imagine such boat owners dumping their effluents into their water spaces and other garbage overboard. They also worry about them sneaking on shore and getting robbed or assaulted, or even just plain trespassing onto their property. Most people who are well off want privacy in what they think of as their space and view. And anchoring boats nearby threatens them. Probably I would not like my privacy becoming public, as it is forced on me if a boat is anchored near by.

They are going to think, why dont they go to a marina, and then will think they are poor slobs, like drifters or like bums, what did they call those people who illegally rode the railroads? Hobos. And in their 'back yards', yes they are going to feel imposed upon.

The violence of Waterworld comes to mind. Popular themes although not based in reality lurks in the back of the minds, because if that crime could happen, means it might happen. And the older the person gets the more worried they become about their security.

Your not sneaking ashore in Coastal Ga, not without wading through waste deep stinking mud and saw grass as tall as you are anyway, and shore more often that not is after you go through 100 yards of that mud and saw grass.

However your right in their mind they worked hard, funny how all the people who inherited their money claim how hard they work, but anyway they worked for their peace and quiet and isolation, and are incensed by the thought that others get to enjoy it for free, how dare they?

I used to ascribe that to the Yankees from NY who retire in Fl. It’s embarrassing to me to see it happening in Ga, where most of the population isn’t from NY.
But it their mind they paid all this extra money to live in a gated community so that they aren’t near and don’t have to look at trailer parks, they certainly don’t want one in their backyard, and even if there isn’t one, it’s not hard to get them all riled up to ensure their won’t be either.
We have all seen the floating junk yards in Fl where the abandoned / derelict boats sit and aren’t occupied and eventually either get blown away in a storm, or just sink.
That is what needs to be dealt with, and it wouldn’t be hard or do either, but for some reason there just doesn’t seem to be an understanding of the difference, they don’t want ANY boats.

If Boat US and others don’t get on board and start working to get rid of the floating junk yards, we are going to lose our anchoring rights or privileges, watch and see.

[boat driver]

Originally Posted by skenn_ie

If I had a waterside property, I would be very happy to look out at some boats

The waterfront owners that decry the anchored boats have alternative methods to discourage anchoring too close, if imagination and education is utilized.

Unfortunately, the issue is again the few freeloaders that lack the social or respectful skills of society and anchor too close in the personal space of the waterfront owner, who is often taxed at premium rates. No different to the neighbor's running loud machinery at cocktail hour, or an outdoor entertainment venue playing music that disturb the neighbors at unreasonable volumes.
Suggesting the "war" of wealth vs poor is detracting from the issue of the non-law or social respect conforming vs the law abiding.

Discussion to the tools the State is utilizing to address this minor group of non-conforming is paramount to not creating hardships for ourselves and our freedoms-
Maybe suggesting reasonable alternatives to solving this dilemma would be helpful.
But always remember the squeaky wheel gets lubricated- and when going into an anchorage and discovering the one 8' anchor hole contains a sunk derelict vessel- maybe these tools Georgia is creating will only be used to address the correct offenders.

[gonesail]

I think the state of GA missed the boat on this one. for one thing many boats passing thru coastal GA will not even need a pumpout .. and who will force the pumpout stations to keep a year's worth of records? is it even possible? do an internet search and you will see major coastal sewage spills of up to 700K gallons in GA.

[sabreline]

Originally Posted by sdowney717

Waterfront homeowners pay lots of tax monies and don't want to open their back door, sit in their backyard and have a constant progression of anchoring boats coming or going. I suppose they are ignorant and probably imagine such boat owners dumping their effluents into their water spaces and other garbage overboard. They also worry about them sneaking on shore and getting robbed or assaulted, or even just plain trespassing onto their property. Most people who are well off want privacy in what they think of as their space and view. And anchoring boats nearby threatens them. Probably I would not like my privacy becoming public, as it is forced on me if a boat is anchored near by.

They are going to think, why dont they go to a marina, and then will think they are poor slobs, like drifters or like bums, what did they call those people who illegally rode the railroads? Hobos. And in their 'back yards', yes they are going to feel imposed upon.

The violence of Waterworld comes to mind. Popular themes although not based in reality lurks in the back of the minds, because if that crime could happen, means it might happen. And the older the person gets the more worried they become about their security.

Well, how very interesting. I'm guessing that you are NOT a waterfront homeowner so not sure how you know EXACTLY what the concerns are of those (like me) who do own a home on the water. Unlike you, I wouldn't dream of thinking I know what anybody else thinks, or is worried about. So let me just tell you what I think. First of all, I have boated my entire life. I lived on the boat for 11 months while completing the Loop. I am fully aware of how holding tanks work and am also not worried about anyone coming ashore to rob me. You are always welcome to anchor near my house, as long as you don't have your music blaring late at night. In fact, I have often suggested our lovely location just off the ICW as a pleasant spot to spend the night. You are NOT welcome to leave your piece of junk boat to rot and either wash ashore or sink, leaving it to me (as a local taxpayer) to deal with having your scrap metal hauled away. I'm sorry that you are upset that some people have more than you do, but trust me, I am not wealthy and neither are my neighbors. Contrary to another comment, I did not inherit a dime but did work VERY hard to earn what I have and if you are a nice person, in a decent running boat, you are welcome to come visit!

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by sabreline

Well, how very interesting. I'm guessing that you are NOT a waterfront homeowner so not sure how you know EXACTLY what the concerns are of those (like me) who do own a home on the water. Unlike you, I wouldn't dream of thinking I know what anybody else thinks, or is worried about. So let me just tell you what I think. First of all, I have boated my entire life. I lived on the boat for 11 months while completing the Loop. I am fully aware of how holding tanks work and am also not worried about anyone coming ashore to rob me. You are always welcome to anchor near my house, as long as you don't have your music blaring late at night. In fact, I have often suggested our lovely location just off the ICW as a pleasant spot to spend the night. You are NOT welcome to leave your piece of junk boat to rot and either wash ashore or sink, leaving it to me (as a local taxpayer) to deal with having your scrap metal hauled away. I'm sorry that you are upset that some people have more than you do, but trust me, I am not wealthy and neither are my neighbors. Contrary to another comment, I did not inherit a dime but did work VERY hard to earn what I have and if you are a nice person, in a decent running boat, you are welcome to come visit!

As someone in the same position I fully agree! It's no different then if someone parked their RV on the public street parking in front of your house. A couple days most of us probably wouldn't care. Weeks, months or years, with or without the dumping sewage in the storm drain and loud music, the most high and mighty person here is going to complain. This isn't a class war issue, it's a basic courtesy and respect issue.

[AA3JY]

The future..?

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...nt-222342.html

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

As someone in the same position I fully agree! It's no different then if someone parked their RV on the public street parking in front of your house. A couple days most of us probably wouldn't care. Weeks, months or years, with or without the dumping sewage in the storm drain and loud music, the most high and mighty person here is going to complain. This isn't a class war issue, it's a basic courtesy and respect issue.

I think your example lacks merit. A more apt comparison is that you bought a house across the street from a public park that was specifically set aside by law for use by RVs, a rest stop for vehicles and general non-specific use by the public. You knew this or should have known this when you bought the property as you could obviously see the the park and people using it. The park has some rules, for instance an RV cannot empty it's holding tank on the ground, but must use a pump out facility. If one ne'er-do-well disobeys this rule and dumps their holding tank on the ground that person is liable for his infraction and should be punished according to the law. It does not give you the unilateral right to decide the park should be shut down and all RV's removed. If part of the park near your home has a noise ordinance and that ordinance is being violated you have the right to call the police and report the violation. If the police investigate and find that you are correct then the violators must answer to the law. If there is no noise ordinance you have the right to petition your government to pass such an ordinance to give you recourse if the problem should happen again. You do not have the right to request that the police close the park.