Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooling

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Apparently not much.



Are icebreakers changing the climate? | Icelights: Your Burning Questions About Ice & Climate

Jack do you really believe all the government sponsored stuff you read. Have you personally ever even been on an icebreaker? ( I have on the USCG icebreaker polar star.)
Becides if they were to admit that reduction of Arctic sea ice is driven by money just as much as anything else. They couldn't use the loss as a tool to promote gw to the unlearned masses.
So until they approve the grant funds to study he icebreaker affect. This will remain an issue . I will send you a copy of my findings for review prior to publishing. I should be able to make it last about 5 good paying years. Mabey able to squeeze 7 out of it.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Hold that though.....

Arctic ice is fresh water but the water below it is salt. Two different densities. So the fresh water cube sits slightly higher in a salt water glass.

This would cause the arctic ice to displace a slightly bit more when it melts, due to the higher density salt water below it. So if the arctic sea ice melted it would raise the ocean levels. But only by about 3/4"

You are right that fresh water ice cubes in a glass of fresh water will not cause a change in water level. Same with salt water ice in salt water (yuck!).

Blonde Power..... I am sometimes a consulting engineer.

Blonds and real engineers rule.

I too am a simple engineer who creates things that haven't been made before. They call me an electronic and systems developer as well as a patents owning inventor.

Yes, I quietly laugh at the male non blonde's with just average intellect who think they are so smart. The scientific world is full of such mediocrity unfortunately. But as I said sailorchic, we rule.

I instinctively agree with your statement regarding the displacement difference between salt water and fresh water. This is because salt has its own mass. Which then raises the question of how to actually measure the mass differential between the two liquids. Especially when it comes to ocean's. You have to of course take into account the amount of salt property in differing parts of the world's ocean's. Or do all ocean waters have the same amount of salt per parts measure?

But let's not let real scientific analysis and measurement get in the way of politically correct theory. After all real measurement of observed events and calculating the underlying basis of cause and effect is beyond the intellectual capacity of much of today's dumbed down non blonde male scientists. :-)

[Exile]

Sure wish you engineers and other tech types would chime in more on these crazy threads -- male, female, blond, brunette, don't really care. When you do it's pretty illuminating, and often time saving too.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

ocean's. You have to of course take into account the amount of salt property in differing parts of the world's ocean's. Or do all ocean waters have the same amount of salt per parts measure?

It varies- at the surface, it's generally between 3.3% and 3.7%
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:W..._SAL_AYool.png

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by StuM

It varies- at the surface, it's generally between 3.3% and 3.7%
See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:W..._SAL_AYool.png

Although the vast majority of seawater has a salinity of between 3.1% and 3.8%, seawater is not uniformly saline throughout the world. Where mixing occurs with fresh water runoff from river mouths or near melting glaciers, seawater can be substantially less saline. The most saline open sea is the Red Sea, where high rates of evaporation, low precipitation and river inflow, and confined circulation result in unusually salty water. The salinity in isolated bodies of water (for example, the Dead Sea) can be considerably greater still.

The density of surface seawater ranges from about 1020 to 1029 kg/m3, depending on the temperature and salinity. Deep in the ocean, under high pressure, seawater can reach a density of 1050 kg/m3 or higher. Seawater pH is limited to the range 7.5 to 8.4. The speed of sound in seawater is about 1,500 m/s, and varies with water temperature, salinity, and pressure.

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by Exile

Sure wish you engineers and other tech types would chime in more on these crazy threads -- male, female, blond, brunette, don't really care. When you do it's pretty illuminating, and often time saving too.

Thanks for the flowers.

[GoingWalkabout]

Now that we have active volcanoes spewing gases into the atmosphere on Islands, and at least two continents, we should be calculating the cooling effects these eruptions will be having on the climate.

One decent volcano eruption surpass the total gas outputs of all the factories of China over a number of years.

Should we be looking at putting a carbon tax on countries, rich and poor that have volcanoes? Something I think worth thinking about.

I'm still wondering if i should be making preparation for arctic type cruising because of the global cooling that is now being accelerated by volcanoes.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Now that we have active volcanoes spewing gases into the atmosphere on Islands, and at least two continents, we should be calculating the cooling effects these eruptions will be having on the climate.

One decent volcano eruption surpass the total gas outputs of all the factories of China over a number of years.

Should we be looking at putting a carbon tax on countries, rich and poor that have volcanoes? Something I think worth thinking about.

I'm still wondering if i should be making preparation for arctic type cruising because of the global cooling that is now being accelerated by volcanoes.

Many more than people think and on almost every continent and many many islands. But keep it quiet don't want to draw the attention of the mmgw police

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by GoingWalkabout

Now that we have active volcanoes spewing gases into the atmosphere on Islands, and at least two continents, we should be calculating the cooling effects these eruptions will be having on the climate.

One decent volcano eruption surpass the total gas outputs of all the factories of China over a number of years.

Should we be looking at putting a carbon tax on countries, rich and poor that have volcanoes? Something I think worth thinking about.

I'm still wondering if i should be making preparation for arctic type cruising because of the global cooling that is now being accelerated by volcanoes.

Myth, volcanos contribute only a fraction of ash and co2 as do human activity. When you look at the massive amounts being expelled by these volcanos, you get an idea of what we human-beings are doing on a daily basis. Reality, it is a wonderful thing.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by captlloyd

Myth, volcanos contribute only a fraction of ash and co2 as do human activity. When you look at the massive amounts being expelled by these volcanos, you get an idea of what we human-beings are doing on a daily basis. Reality, it is a wonderful thing.

I know this is old news but off the cuff for me. On may 18 1980 mount saint Helens erupted here emitting approximately. 2 million metric tons of co2. While at that same time all agw gasses in america equalled approx 81,000 metric tons per day .

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I know this is old news but off the cuff for me. On may 18 1980 mount saint Helens erupted here emitting approximately. 2 million metric tons of co2. While at that same time all agw gasses in america equalled approx 81,000 metric tons per day .

Globally anthropogenic CO2 emissions were 14.5 million tonnes per day in 1980. That is 5301 million tonnes in the year.

BTW 1 tonne = 1.1 tons.



http://cdiac.ornl.gov/ftp/ndp030/global.1751_2013.ems

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Globally anthropogenic CO2 emissions were 14.5 million tonnes per day in 1980. That is 5301 million tonnes in the year.

BTW 1 tonne = 1.1 tons.



http://cdiac.ornl.gov/ftp/ndp030/global.1751_2013.ems

Yes jack I understand that however here's a bit more to context with on the earth there are on average 20 volcanoes erupting every day.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Yes jack I understand that however here's a bit more to context with on the earth there are on average 20 volcanoes erupting every day.

OK that would be 1,620,000 tons or about 1.1% of human emissions, assuming they were Mount St Helens magnitude.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by jackdale

OK that would be 1,620,000 tons or about 1.1% of human emissions, assuming they were Mount St Helens magnitude.

Recent research suggests the worldwide figure is closer to 600 million tons and this figure could still be just the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.livescience.com/40451-vol...taggering.html

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Recent research suggests the worldwide figure is closer to 600 million tons and this figure could still be just the tip of the iceberg.

Long Invisible, Research Shows Volcanic CO2 Levels Are Staggering | Volcano Climate

From that research

The global subaerial CO2 flux we report is higher than previous estimates, but remains insignificant relative to anthropogenic emissions, which are two orders of magnitude greater at 35,000 Mt/yr (Friedlingstein et al. 2010).

http://rimg.geoscienceworld.org/cont...1/323.full.pdf