Do we need to be preparing for Arctic cruising strategies because of Global Cooling

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by jackdale

I think the belief that we can dump trillions of CO2 into the atmosphere, raising the concentrations to levels not seen in 3-5 millions years, is ludicrous.

With humans able to survive up to 5000 ppm co2 and plants at their happiest at 1000 - 1300 ppm, I'm going to hazard a guess that we'll well and truly run out of economical fossil fuels before the current 2 ppm annual increase leads to our demise as a species.

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[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

Hang on. My favourite car is 24 years old, my company car that I brought new is coming up to 8 years old and burns less than 5 litres per 100 km and my preferred mode of transportation is a motor scooter. And our boat of choice is a sailboat.

And whilst my blu ray player had to be junked, my pool pump, Gerni and hot water heater have all been repaired and given another lease on life in the past week

Oh yeah, our house's fully ducted air con packed it in through lack of use a fair while back and it's replacement is low on the list of priorities.

I sleep at night practising what I preach and live in hope that others will do the same. I still think the idea of lowering co2 content is pie in the sky, however, and is detracting away from other issues.

Policy changes are required - just like your scheme for making stuff repairable. This won't be solved by a few of us being Boy Scouts or Ghandi.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by jackdale

I think the belief that we can dump trillions of CO2 into the atmosphere, raising the concentrations to levels not seen in 3-5 millions years, is ludicrous.

Trillions of co2. ?

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Policy changes are required - just like your scheme for making stuff repairable. This won't be solved by a few of us being Boy Scouts or Ghandi.

No argument there, but educating the masses on root causes would be sure to help because scare campaigns don't seem to be working.

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[newhaul]

Problem is cleaner air equals less Arctic sea ice.
http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2015/...leaned-up.html

[sailorchic34]

Oh dear, I can't believe your all still going on about this.

Co2 is rising, but it is unclear if the rise is due to a warming earth with additional out gassing of co2 from the oceans or from people burning fuel( wood, oil gas) or just from destroying the rain forests. Human derived CO2 amounts amounts to only 5% of total world wide CO2. The oceans are a Hugh sink and emitter of Co2.

If you follow the numbers, you will see that if the US and Canada completely stopped ALL human CO2 emissions in their countries, the world wide human co2 concentration would fall from 5% to about 4.5% for a world wide reduction from 0.0398% to 0.0396% A two ten thousands reduction, which BTW, is not actually measurable. That's for a 100% reduction of Co2 emissions in north America, which means no cars, no coal or natural gas fired power plans and no space heating or cooking by fuel, coal or wood.

It's very easy to check those numbers. So why discuss it further. Even if the whole world reduced human Co2 by 20% that would only reduce world Co2 by ~1%, This as human co2 emissions are tiny compared to natural co2 emitters. So a human 20% reduction would reduce co2 from 0.0398% to 0.0394%. I don't see that as having much real effect. I suspect we would need to reduce Co2 by 60-70% to make a true difference and that would kill too many folks.

Perhaps we should talk about anchors and their effect on Co2.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

With humans able to survive up to 5000 ppm co2 and plants at their happiest at 1000 - 1300 ppm, I'm going to hazard a guess that we'll well and truly run out of economical fossil fuels before the current 2 ppm annual increase leads to our demise as a species.

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At 550 ppm food crops will start to lose nutritional value.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture13179.html

Rising carbon dioxide levels may reduce the nutritional value of important foods | Public Radio International

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Trillions of co2. ?

Yep

The total anthropogenic carbon emissions from 1751 to 2011 is:
373,729,000,000 metric tonnes or 1,370,464,000,000 metric tonnes of CO2.

1751 - 3 million metric tons of anthropogenic carbon emissions
2011 - 9449 million metric tons of anthropogenic carbon emissions

http://cdiac.ornl.gov/ftp/ndp030/global.1751_2011.ems

I used a spread sheet to get the total.

[FlightPlan]

Originally Posted by exMaggieDrum

Are you serious or are you kidding?? Go sit in your car, turn it on, close the garage door, and tell me about NO carbon in the air.

No one is alive to tell about that

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Co2 is rising, but it is unclear if the rise is due to a warming earth with additional out gassing of co2 from the oceans or from people burning fuel( wood, oil gas) or just from destroying the rain forests.

Using carbon isotope analysis, the 40% increase in CO2 can be linked directly to the burning of fossil fuels. The is quite clear.

It's Our Fault | James Lawrence Powell

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by jackdale

At 550 ppm food crops will start to lose nutritional value.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture13179.html

Rising carbon dioxide levels may reduce the nutritional value of important foods | Public Radio International

You keep parroting these links, but the data is cherry picked doomsayer claptrap. May, maybe, could and might don't constitute fact.

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[jackdale]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

This as human co2 emissions are tiny compared to natural co2 emitters.

Really? Human emit 135 times more CO2 than all volcanic activity.

Volcanic Gases and Climate Change Overview

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

You keep parroting these links, but the data is cherry picked doomsayer claptrap. May, maybe, could and might don't constitute fact.

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Show me your data, from open air experiments.

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Show me your data, from open air experiments.

I'm not an agronomist. Would you like me google "GM" and get back to you, or are you against this technology as well?

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[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Reefmagnet

I'm not an agronomist. Would you like me google "GM" and get back to you, or are you against this technology as well?

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I would like to to substantiate your assertions.

I am not opposed to GM. However, I am opposed to patenting food.