Another EV Fire on a RO/RO?

[jeanathon]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe...rd-2023-07-26/

[Franziska]

Wonder why they do not at least require some thick fireproof covers over each EV in transport.

Surely insurances will start wanting this, or, floodable transport containers for each vehicle.
More expensive and not suitable for existing car carriers though, unless the containers are on wheels...

[CaptTom]

There are fires with gas (petrol) cars on cargo ships, too. From that same article:

Earlier this month, two New Jersey firefighters were killed and five injured battling a blaze on a cargo ship carrying hundreds of vehicles. There were no electric cars on that vessel, the operator said.

Of course a thermal runaway battery fire is different than a gasoline fire. Both are pretty bad. I suppose there is probably a firefighting system designed for traditional fuels on board these ships, which might not work with EVs.

In this case all the article said was that the fire started "near" an EV, and that they were surprised how quickly it spread. It seems likely the EV was the cause but that doesn't appear certain.

[skipperpete]

2,585 cars on board 25 of which were electric. Looks like the “Fremantle highway” will be a total loss.

[MikeHoncho]

Originally Posted by CaptTom

There are fires with gas (petrol) cars on cargo ships, too. From that same article:


Of course a thermal runaway battery fire is different than a gasoline fire. Both are pretty bad. I suppose there is probably a firefighting system designed for traditional fuels on board these ships, which might not work with EVs.

In this case all the article said was that the fire started "near" an EV, and that they were surprised how quickly it spread. It seems likely the EV was the cause but that doesn't appear certain.

Current technology available doesn’t not extinguish lithium ion fires once they are in thermal run-away. They will burn under water.

[Franziska]

Originally Posted by MikeHoncho

Current technology available doesn’t not extinguish lithium ion fires once they are in thermal run-away. They will burn under water.

True, but still firefighters use portable water filled containers to control the reaction.
Hence my thoughts on floodable containers.

[boatman61]

They're blowing up in garages and apartments as well, E scooters, E bikes and a Tesla went up while travelling down the road a coupla days back.
Would not like them on a boat..

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by boatman61

They're blowing up in garages and apartments as well, E scooters, E bikes and a Tesla went up while travelling down the road a coupla days back.

Would not like them on a boat..

Phones, tablets, computers and all the other small devices with lithium batteries is a very small risk that we all accept.

The larger batteries in e-scooters, e-bikes, underwater scooters, electric hydrofoils, etc are where the real risks are. Keeping them on deck is one option. Not charging them overnight or unattended.

The super yacht industry is paying attention: https://www.estelashipping.es/podcas...-seminar-2023/.

[boatman61]

I meant I would not install Lithium batteries on a boat of mine..

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I meant I would not install Lithium batteries on a boat of mine..

As countless threads on CF have noted, LFP batteries that are installed in boats are fundamentally different from the Lithium-Ion batteries used in devices and cars. LFP batteries do not do thermal runaway. Arguably, they’re safer than flooded lead acid batteries and at least on par regarding safety with AGM batteries.

[Nicholson58]

Car and bike, scooter batteries are high density chemistry and prone to combustion and run away.
LiFePo batteries used on boats are low density and not at all prone to fire issues. They are ABYC approved.
Lithium battery transport requires max 30% charge. Apparently, installed in a car this requirement is waived - stupid!
EV makers say to not charge them in a garage and not to fully charge.
Fueled cars are typically shipped with near empty tanks. Lithium EVs are shipped charged

There is a whole lot of very elementary stupid associated with the OP’s reference article. A vehicle that cannot be fully fueled, suffers enormous range reduction for AC or heating, further battery performance reduction in cold or hot weather. Face it. These are expensive golf carts.

[MikeHoncho]

Originally Posted by Franziska

True, but still firefighters use portable water filled containers to control the reaction.
Hence my thoughts on floodable containers.

Not in the US they aren’t.

[The Yacht Rigger]

Originally Posted by fxykty

As countless threads on CF have noted, LFP batteries that are installed in boats are fundamentally different from the Lithium-Ion batteries used in devices and cars. LFP batteries do not do thermal runaway. Arguably, they’re safer than flooded lead acid batteries and at least on par regarding safety with AGM batteries.

Came here to say the same thing. Well said.
Lithium Ion, and Lithium Iron Phosphate (used on boats) are tow very different chemistries. The latter is incredibly stable, incredibly hard to create a thermal runaway, almost impossible.

Installed incorrectly, ANY battery chemistry can cause a fire - unfortunately too many people (still a low number overall) install LifePo4 batteries as straight "drop in" replacements, without upgrading and or modifying their existing wiring and components, and cause a fire through ignorance - not the fault of the battery chemistry itself.

[Lake-Effect]

My friend the architect has been designing new and retrofit EV facilities for car dealerships. He's been studying every EV fire report he comes across, and has attended a few conferences. He says that the fire codes are only now coming to grips with how to manage the potential risks of current EV technology, and how to fight those fires.

It's not an insurmountable problem; it just has to be understood and managed. Like the above suggestion that maybe car EV batteries shouldn't be fully charged while the vehicles are being transported.

He also mentioned that both RO-RO fires involved electric vehicles from the same manufacturer, but I haven't been able to corroborate that.

[MikeHoncho]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

My friend the architect has been designing new and retrofit EV facilities for car dealerships. He's been studying every EV fire report he comes across, and has attended a few conferences. He says that the fire codes are only now coming to grips with how to manage the potential risks of current EV technology, and how to fight those fires.

It's not an insurmountable problem; it just has to be understood and managed. Like the above suggestion that maybe car EV batteries shouldn't be fully charged while the vehicles are being transported.

He also mentioned that both RO-RO fires involved electric vehicles from the same manufacturer, but I haven't been able to corroborate that.

The whole American fire service would like your input on managing and fighting Lipo fires……