Abby Sunderland - The Debate

[Bill Lee]

Is this an issue of following one's dream? If so - who's dream? Is it Abby"s dream, Her parent's dream? Her sponsor's dream? Australian SAR's dream? Did Abby lay awake at night dreaming about being in the Southern Ocean in winter? Relishing 30 foot waves and the possible rogue wave? mmmmmm rogue wave mmmmmm
Cheers,
Bill

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Bill Lee

Is this an issue of following one's dream? If so - who's dream? Is it Abby"s dream, Her parent's dream? Her sponsor's dream? Australian SAR's dream? Did Abby lay awake at night dreaming about being in the Southern Ocean in winter? Relishing 30 foot waves and the possible rogue wave? mmmmmm rogue wave mmmmmm
Cheers,
Bill

We don't know and even if we did what difference does make? You can't police dreams? Not yet, thank God!

[knothead]

Originally Posted by Doodles

We don't know and even if we did what difference does make? You can't police dreams? Not yet, thank God!

And that's the issue. Because of stupid stunts like this there is very likely to be a push for more regulations and more insurance requirements and more intrusion into our lives.
And that is everyone else's business.

[paradix]

Originally Posted by knothead

And that's the issue. Because of stupid stunts like this there is very likely to be a push for more regulations and more insurance requirements and more intrusion into our lives.
And that is everyone else's business.

I'm not sure I understand you completely: you want the freedom to do your own thing, but you don't want others to exercise that freedom too?

Please don't get me wrong: I'm not being facetious, or even disagreeing with you for that matter... I'm just not sure I see a way out of that conundrum.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by knothead

And that's the issue. Because of stupid stunts like this there is very likely to be a push for more regulations and more insurance requirements and more intrusion into our lives.
And that is everyone else's business.

I guess it comes down to how much control do you want in your life and who do you want to give that control to. Believe me, there are people who think anyone who wants to sail across an ocean is "stupid" no matter how skilled or prepared. Where do you draw the line and who draws it? Society of course. How do you think they are doing at drawing that line?

There is already more regulation that I like, even for "stupid" stuff.

[Bill Lee]

Hopefully there won't be any further regulations/laws - but sometimes that's necessary. I don't think its necessary regarding this. We don't need laws that prescribe each and every "do" or "don't" regarding children - its an impossible task. There's an infinite number of possible acts that can be contemplated. What is required is reasonableness. What is reasonable for an inexperienced sailer is different than for an experienced sailer. Abby appears to fall into the more experienced 'camp'. The issue (as I see it) is whether it was reasonable to let your kid pursue a record by going through the Southern Ocean when prudence would dictate a different season. All to beat a record. If it was for the experience - she could have left when her timing would have been better. But to beat a record (age/time - what-have-you) strikes me as unreasonable. However, we're all entitled to a different opinion. God forbid if Abby had perished. How would the proponents justify the reasonableness of pursuing the record? Thankfully, Abby is doing great. She's a remarkable young person.

[JiffyLube]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

Now quite right, JL . . . they were approached to do such a show, agreed to do it, it was shopped but never optioned and so it never occurred. That is the version Mrs. Sunderland has posted to Abby's blog, anyway:

Abby's Blog

Lots of other interesting information in the post, as well: see "Answers to the Critics."

You're right, I was in error...sorry

[Bloodhound]

Many have a tendency to bellow about rights and remain silent about conditions and responsibilities. In my view,

1. Everyone should have the right to follow their dreams as long as exercising that right doesn't infringe on the rights of others.
2. With the exercise of that right comes the responsibility to hold others harmless from the consequences.

So integral with "right" are the conditions that my rights don't trump yours and others must be held harmless. If I sail across the seas, or fly, and get into trouble, I would expect help if it can be provided, but I must also be responsible for the costs and any harm done to others, these being the consequences of my actions. Seems pretty simple as long as we're all responsible (not entitled) human beings.

[knothead]

Originally Posted by paradix

I'm not sure I understand you completely: you want the freedom to do your own thing, but you don't want others to exercise that freedom too?

Please don't get me wrong: I'm not being facetious, or even disagreeing with you for that matter... I'm just not sure I see a way out of that conundrum.

I live in FL. They have a Click it or Ticket law. I hate it.
I believe than everybody should wear a seat belt, but I hate that we have to forced to do so by law.
There is no helmet law in FL. I am a big proponent of that law. At the same time I believe that anyone who rides a motorcycle without a helmet is pretty damn stupid.

I absolutely want others to have the freedom to set off around the world at sixteen and I want their parents to have the freedom to let them. I just think it is stupid and I fully expect that a lot of other people who don't know the first thing about sailing think it's stupid too.
The sailing community that is aware of these stupid, publicity driven stunts and not only stand by and let them happen, but actually encourage them are jeopardizing their own freedom to do the same in the future.

I don't see a conundrum or contradiction. Freedoms are just like natural resources. Just because you might have them, even perhaps in abundance, that's no reason to abuse or waste them in stupid pursuits.

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by knothead

I live in FL. They have a Click it or Ticket law. I hate it.
I believe than everybody should wear a seat belt, but I hate that we have to forced to do so by law.
There is no helmet law in FL. I am a big proponent of that law. At the same time I believe that anyone who rides a motorcycle without a helmet is pretty damn stupid.

I absolutely want others to have the freedom to set off around the world at sixteen and I want their parents to have the freedom to let them. I just think it is stupid and I fully expect that a lot of other people who don't know the first thing about sailing think it's stupid too.
The sailing community that is aware of these stupid, publicity driven stunts and not only stand by and let them happen, but actually encourage them are jeopardizing their own freedom to do the same in the future.

I don't see a conundrum or contradiction. Freedoms are just like natural resources. Just because you might have them, even perhaps in abundance, that's no reason to abuse or waste them in stupid pursuits.

What should or could the community (including you?) have done to stop it?

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Doodles

What should or could the community (including you?) have done to stop it?

Pilloried them

Before, during and after.

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by Doodles

What should or could the community (including you?) have done to stop it?

Simple. Just have your Government start charging them for their Winter deep ocean rescues... You'll be amazed what effect this would have had on the Sunderland's "team" effort... Either he would have had to seek insurance (good luck), or it would have been "Daddy thinks you should stay in port 'til the Spring, Baby..."

[David M]

They did get the fame they so desired. Perhaps they can now make a lot of money off that fame? I don't fault anyone for wanting fame and money. I just question the ethics of their methodology. If it succeeds then it will be Mission Accomplished....good for them.

I have never been one for conspiracies but very cynically, perhaps the dismasting was planned? I seriously doubt it, but what if? The rescue did grab the worlds attention, probably more so than if she had successfully circumnavigated Antarctica.

[Hud3]

Here's an excerpt from an interesting article on the magnitude of the rescue effort.

The first day Abby Sunderland was stranded in the Southern Ocean, Australia's rescue agency chartered a jet to fly over the area where her emergency beacon was activated. The 11-hour flight cost an estimated 110,000 Australian dollars (US $94,500).
The second day, after locating her, the agency sent another plane to coordinate her pickup by ships racing toward her damaged and drifting yacht.
The Australian military also deployed two Orion aircraft to wait on an Indian Ocean island in case an airdrop or further assistance was needed. An Orion costs about AU$30,000 an hour to operate.
In the meantime, the French territory of Reunion Island diverted three ships to Sunderland's location. The fishing vessel that reached her first lost at least three days of work; a commercial ship also sent to her rescue would have added three or four days of travel time to its intended destination.

The point is made in the article that France and Australia were obligated to expend the efforts to effect the rescue by international conventions, and at no cost to the person rescued. Abby's mom is said to have stated that there is no way the family could pay the rescuers even if asked.

I was surprised to learn that Australia's zone of responsibility covers 10% of the Earth's surface!

Read the whole story at Countries paying teen's rescue cost defend sea law - Yahoo! News

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

Simple. Just have your Government start charging them for their Winter deep ocean rescues... You'll be amazed what effect this would have had on the Sunderland's "team" effort... Either he would have had to seek insurance (good luck), or it would have been "Daddy thinks you should stay in port 'til the Spring, Baby..."

I know a lot of people would like to see this but its never going to happen. Australia has said so many times.