ID My Sails!

[Baggywhacker]

Howdy all, I wonder whether anyone might take a couple of minutes to help a complete novice identify his sail wardrobe? Pretty please, it is my birthday, plus you'll get to enjoy some photos of lovely Shetland!

I've been lurking here for a couple of years and I'd really hoped my first question would be something that made me sound incredibly pro, but I've finally bought my first boat and it came with no less than 8 sails, and I'm not 100% sure why the previous owner needed them all.

Using my advanced knowledge of mast slides and forestay clips, I'm pretty confidant I've differentiated between the mains and the jibs Incidentally the boat's a dinky little thing, barely 20' with a 22' mast and 8'8" boom. She's a self-build obviously, and I'm informed that the builder designed her to be sailed with twin headsails.

The 3 mains seem easy enough:

1.

Normal, everyday main?

2.

I've been assured this is my main for light winds...

Side question - why do I need reefing points on a sail designed for light winds?

3.

Presumably for heavy weather.


Now the foresails, which are a little more confusing:

4.

My largest jib (area = 111 square feet). My main go-to sail? (It was in a bag labelled "storm jib", which I suspect is the wrong bag!)

5.

No, not the same photo! It's almost identical to the previous one. Area = 110 square feet. It was in a bag labelled "No. 1".

6.

Obviously smaller (69 square feet) - is this heavy weather, or to be flown together with a larger foresail? It's bag just says "Genny".

7.

Seems a straightforward heavy-weather jib.

Side question: how can I differentiate between the head and the tack on sails like this? I have no idea if I'm flying it upside down!

8.

Slightly smaller area than the previous one (47 versus 51 square feet), my thought was this is also a storm jib, however it was in a bag labelled "Inner". So is this for flying alone in heavy weather, or together as the inner headsail behind a larger jib?

Many thanks in advance for any help you can give

[JPA Cate]

Hi, Baggywhacker, welcome aboard CF.

You have a light air main, without its reefs rove. Your boat may not have the hardware for reefing it. Since there are 3 of them, I'd guess that the PO used the first sail pictured in light air, then second in moderate, and the third, in the heaviest air s/he wanted to sail in, changing sails instead of reefing. Just put the one on for the conditions at hand. However, if you were told that the dark red main is for light airs, feel the cloth: if it has a light "hand" to it, they may be right. Or, the PO may have got a good buy on it, and thought it would do, for a #1 reef sail.

The headsails: Well, with the two that are almost the same size, how about a light air 110 and a slightly heavier 110? [That being % of fore-triangle.] If either of those sails fits in a bag called "storm jib", that bag's original contents came off a larger boat than yours. You could take a marking pen, cross out "storm jib" and write heavy or light #1.

You're going to have fun with the marking pen. You'll want to label the sails as to what they are on your boat, not according to the bags they came in. The one marked "Inner" has come off a boat that had an inner foresail, and used sails come in their original bags, most often. Work out the area of your fore-triangle, then either assign numbers to the sail, with #1 being the largest, or label them with the % of fore-triangle. Also label the sails, at the tack, so there will be no further confusion.

The smaller headsail not a storm jib looks like about an 80% to me. It would be a #5, or 6, I guess. It is a heavier air sail for when you don't yet need the storm jib. The "genny" nomenclature means a "genoa", an overlapping headsail. It's the bags are making me confused. Just look at the sizes relative to the size of the fore-triangle, and I think it will start making more sense.

The storm jib is easy, you got it right way up: the insignia is usually near the tack of the sail. We always kept the sheets for the storm jib on it, because of wanting to limit time on the foredeck when it is rough enough to need the sail.

She's a nice, tidy looking boat, and i wish you great pleasure of her.

Fabric that feels soft, like a handkerchief, is said to have a soft or light "hand", and stiffer fabric, to have a "heavy" or "hard" "hand".

Ann

[StuM]

ISTM that the previous owner bought/acquired several second hand sails which were not originally designed for that boat.

[GordMay]

The sail area, depth, & weight varies from boat to boat, but generally a 100% jib just passes before the mast on a tack, then a #1 headsail would be about 150% area, #2 is about 135%, #3 is 100 to 110% of jib, #4 is about 80% and #5 is small, 35% or so.


A better explanation here ➥ https://www.quantumsails.com/en/reso...adsail-options

[Baggywhacker]

Many thanks, all, for your input! She is indeed a tidy boat - believe it or not she's sailed from Sweden to the Azores then on to Shetland (I believe she was headed home again but her builder fell into a diabetic coma: fortunately she drifted into sight of a watchful oil rig). Not bad for a craft her size!

I suppose my most niggling thought is, if she was designed to sail with twin headsails, which pairs of her current wardrobe would work best together up front? Or should I be looking for new additions?

[Jim Cate]

I suppose my most niggling thought is, if she was designed to sail with twin headsails, which pairs of her current wardrobe would work best together up front? Or should I be looking for new additions?

First, be clear that using twins is for courses near to dead downwind and no others. Anf for that use, the pair of almost identical 110 sq ft sails would be good. You will need at least one, and better two whisker or spinnaker poles to do this. You can also use one sail "wung out" on a pole along with the main, set and prevented on the other side. This rig works well on many boats, and we use it with apparent winds as far forward as 100 deg +/-.

And I agree with Ann above that none of those sails are storm jibs for your boat. Far too large!

Jim

[Baggywhacker]

Ooh, you want whisker poles? I got whisker poles!



Maybe I got this wrong, but I got the impression that the builder used a cutter rig, can you see any reason why that wouldn't be possible here?

[Jim Cate]

Umm... I'm not sure what I'm seeing there! Looks like the pole in the foreground is kinda bent. Is that some sort of original setup with the poles going to fittings on the pulpit?

And IMO there isn't much call for a cutter rig on such a small boat. It it was sailed thus, there should be an inner forestay or at least mast and deck terminals for one.

Jim

[Don C L]

That is one unusual and unique little sailing pod, apparently intended for singelhanding across oceans. I BELIEVE those two poles, or rather the large U-shape they make is intended to run the twin jib sheets back for connection to the tiller for downwind self-steering, (wing and wing) but I have never seen that before! You have two identical jibs, right? (photo 4 and 5)I'm going to keep looking at the photos....
If you rotate the U-shaped pole up, do the blocks match up with the clews of the twin sails? Still... not sure how that would work unless the the "whisker pole" was able to rotate side to side too. Fascinating design though! I'd love to see more pictures that were larger. This boat has no cockpit? It's just a capsule?

[Don C L]

Oh wait, is each side able to rotate independent of each other? So it's not actually a "U?"

This thread may be applicable:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ng-151180.html

This little boat was clearly intended to survive rough conditions. Look how deep your 3rd reef is in the main. I suspect the jib in photo 7 is as you say intended for bigger winds, yet it still doesn't look small enough or beefy enough. Still, that sail plus the fully reefed main, on such a small boat, is about the smallest configuration for being able to go upwind I bet. After that you'll just be reaching or running. Show some shots of the stern, I'd like to see that vane back there!

[JPA Cate]

Sometimes people used to hank on the two jibs, on the forestay, and lead the sheets, through blocks, both to the tiller, for DDW sailing. The problem comes when striking them, as the jib hanks may foul each other.

Ann

[Baggywhacker]

If you're interested, PBO wrote an article about her when she was built in 1997, which I've attached, and goes into a lot more detail than I've been able to so far! Re-reading it, I see she is indeed a cutter

(By the way, a few modifications have occurred since the article, for instance the centreboards have been swapped for a fin keel and the outboard has been moved outside).

As far as self-steering goes, there's a fantastically complicated wind vane situation that Don spotted at the stern - I'm not going back to the marina until tomorrow so I'll try to get some better pics, but to be honest that's a whole topic on its own! To complicate matters further, she has a wheel not a tiller, which is connected to the rear vane via a system of lines I haven't begun to figure out yet.

The 2 poles are referred to as "bearing-out poles" specifically for running. They have blocks at the rear so at the moment I'm just running my jib sheets through them back into the cockpit.

The plan, as I understood it, was that there would never be any need to leave the cockpit as all lines either lead into it or are within arm's reach. If the weather worsens the main can be reefed and the jib furled all from the safety of a snug den!

I've been told that the builder rolled her at least twice in the Atlantic with no harm done, so she really does seem to have been designed to be virtually indestructible.

[Don C L]

Wow. Well that sure filled in the gaps! BTW the trim tab windvane should be simple but I imagine he may have quite a contraption to set it from inside without getting out to do it. That whole boat is quite a creation! What are you planning to do with it? That story about him falling on the companionway and paralyzing himself for four days sure got my attention... that whale-back egg may need a lot of non-skid added. BTW there must be another roller furling stay somewhere, no?

[JPA Cate]

And, will the wind steering work with the outboard hanging off the stern?

Ann

[Baggywhacker]

On that last point, the best I can say is I hope so! The outboard swings up and locks in place when not in use and isn't interfering with the vane structure (which, believe it or not, has a solar panel fitted vertically to its rear: last time I tested it was a cloudy day and it was supplying 0.1 amps, so I think that needs a re-think!)

I completely agree about the deck though - I have to assume that since he planned on never leaving the cockpit in any significant weather, he didn't bother addressing skidding at all, and I can definitely confirm that walking around on a smooth domed surface feels hazardous even at dock!

As for my plans.. Well, the world is my oyster! I only started sailing 2 years ago with a couple of RYA courses, and this is my first boat. Obviously I wanted a luxury bluewater cruiser, but I'm not a wealthy man, so when I found a boat within my budget that is demonstrably an ocean-crosser I thought I'd struck gold! Since I'm a solo sailor who can live without creature comforts she's all I need (although tbh if I win the lottery I'm pretty sure a nice 45' cat will be on my shopping list!)

So for this summer I'll be cruising around Shetland getting to know her inside and out, maybe venturing to Orkney or the Faroes if I feel like losing sight of land. Then a circumnavigation of Britain at some point. And if she's made it to Madeira and the Azores, I see no reason why she can't make it all the way to Bermuda... I'll keep you posted