Windlass Setup with Shallow Locker

[deluxe68]

I currently do not have a windlass on our 43’ Swan. The anchor locker is fairly large but only 12” deep. The yard manager seems to think the best bet is to put a horizontal windlass in the locker, I would prefer to put a vertical windlass on deck just in front of the locker lid. I have been looking thru installation manuals for various brands and am getting dizzy trying to figure out the best configuration.

1. Most vertical configurations require 12” from deck to top of chain heap. But some say they need the weight of at least 12” of chain to keep the chain tight around the gypsy, others say the 12” is needed to keep the chain/rode from getting tangled.

2. One vertical brand only requires 8” clearance but that is from the bottom of the motor. Another brand requires 16” from deck to chain pile.

3. The horizontal models all require the chain to enter parallel to the windlass mounting base. How would a horizontal windlass be configured inside an anchor locker? Even if the approach angle were figured out this setup would require the chain passing down thru the locker.

Anyone have any sucess using a shallow locker such as mine?

[Excalibur5]

We have a fairly shallow locker, around 16-18" tall in our Prout Snowgoose. Our windlass is a tigress, so horizontal gypsy.

It works great, but one minor issue we do have with the 100' of chain and shallow locker is that the chain piles up under the winch and you need to knock over the chain pile about every 25 feet by hand to keep it from filling up the space between the locker and the deck. If you don't it will jam.

So be sure to tend to the pile of rode as it comes in. Other than that, zero issues with the chain skipping on the gypsy (except when I let it out too fast).

[Terra Nova]

Originally Posted by deluxe68

...The anchor locker is fairly large but only 12” deep...

You will not get either style windlass to self-feed with a locker only 12" deep; there needs to be space for the chain pile. The locker must be reconfigured or you will have to handle the rode by hand.

[Cheechako]

12" is a bit shallow for sure. On the boat in my avatar I made a heavy duty aluminum base to hold a vertical windlass supported inside the anchor locker. The vertical windlass sat at deck level though, and protruded above deck level through a notch in the anchor locker doors which fit around the windlass base. Part of the base was an aluminum tube maybe 4.5" diameter through which the chain fed to the cavity below the anchor locker. The plate was 3/4 aluminum. It worked well.

[Stu Jackson]

A shallow locker on a friend's S2 35. He fiberglassed one door shut, beefed it up and put in the windlass. He has to kick the chain.

[ggray]

I had about 14 inches below a horizontal windlass, which was a PITA. Had to pull the pile over by hand every so often.


MAJOR project, but I changed things around so that I added about 9 inches to the height. Doesn't sound like a big change, but you cube the difference to get an idea of how much more chain will pile up before you run out of room.

[wannacat]

We have a horizontal Lofrans without much drop either. I just tend to it like the others and knock the pile over every 25 ft or so. Dropping it as fast as you want has never been an issue in 8 years. wouldn't worry about it unless single handing , but even that wouldn't be a huge issue as many times I handle it myself anyways.

[KRMS]

Last year I had to replace the windlass on my Oyster 406 and in doing so I’ve messed up its ability to manage the chain itself. I am, thus, inclined to agree with your reticence re an in locker windlass.

It does seem to be a bit of a black art as to how high the chain will pile up.

My windlass is in the locker on a self (as it always has been). The previous windlass was a very solid Lewmar unit with a gypsy with a ‘chain follower’ on it (not sure if this is the right term so bear with me) with a much lighter weight Lofrans with an open gypsy. I also replaced the chain going from 70m of 9mm (yes 9mm) Maggi Catena Calibrated Anchor Chain to 80m of 8mm Maggi Catena AQUA7 Grade 70 Calibrated Anchor Chain (supposed to be as strong as 10mm).

The problem I have now, which I’d like to warn you about, is two fold: 1 the chain now stacks up in the locker; 2 the stacking of the chain lifts the chain off the gypsy (if i don’t keep pushing the chain stack over in the locker) and then the chain runs out over the bow uncontrolled!

I’ve now learnt to live with this and can manage it so it doesn’t lift off but it’s a pain and I can no longer use the remote windlass controls in the cockpit.

I’d advise the following four points:
1. Have the maximum drop you can
2. Have an enclosed gypsy
3. Ensure you’ve got easy access to the pile for pushing it over
4. If you are going for a lot of chain e.g. 80m consider having some sort of rib or divider in the locker so you can manually shove half the chain well away from where the windlass heaps its pile. My thinking behind this is that you’ll be likely to use less than 40m of chain most of the time so give it the best chain of behaving well.
Oh and 5. Do tie the bitter end of the chain securely in the locker!

[deluxe68]

Our current setup is 30' of 5/16 HT chain with 250' of 5/8 (or 9/16) eight plait. The confusing part comes when some horizontal brands tell you to measure from the deck to the anchor locker, and others say to measure from the center of the gypsy to the bottom of the locker. They do not differentiate between stainless and galvanized chain, or a solid chain vs chain/rode combo.

[MJH]

My new-to-me Tayana Vancouver 42 came with a manual horizontal windlass in a deck locker. I upgraded to an electric Maxwell HWC 1500 with 300' of 5/16" HT Acco/Peerless galvanized chain for our deep Northwest waters and it has served me well. Being a horizontal windlass the chain entry angle to the gypsy should be sufficiently high enough to self wrap around the gypsy before dropping below the locker floor into the chain well. In my case I selected the windlass because of the gypsy location on the unit and installed the windlass as high as possible in the locker yet allowing the doors to fully close to maximize that angle. My correspondence with other Tayana 42 owners revealed some taking rather innovative steps to achieve that angle due to windlass selection...some have a horn on top that would necessitate sitting lower reducing that angle. That said I believe an overall better boat design would have been with a solid deck and vertical windlass but I have noted only one owner who did exactly that.

As far as the chain drop is concerned the boat has more than adequate space in the chain well for the 300' of chain. However, it is fairly common on many boats for large amounts of chain to "castle" when retrieving; in my case 200' is normally fine but if I use 250' or more I can expect trouble retrieving and deploy crew into the locker access to distribute the first 50+' when retrieving.

Good Luck with your install.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[JOHNMARDALL]

Can we think outside the chain locker for a moment? (Sorry, I couldn't resist it) Whether the windlass has a vertical or horizontal shaft, the chain discharge has to be over the chain locker, so even with a horizontal windlass, you will need to build a deck extension over the locker, or reinforce and secure one of the half hatches as shown by a previous poster. With that done, with only 12" depth in the locker, you're going to need to spread the chain around as you retrieve it, or it will soon be piled up under the windlass and stop any additional chain drop (and therefore feed). All of that seems a bit half-baked to me and I definitely wouldn't enjoy it being on the bow, stirring the chain pile in rough conditions.
So, can we forget about the existing "chain locker", move the windlass much further aft on the foredeck, put a vertical chain pipe (4" PVC can be good) under it, and drop the chain into a box or bucket glassed in to a suitably deep part of the bilge? Then we can put a chain stopper far enough aft of the bow roller for the anchor to come all the way in, and put a stainless steel sheet metal plate on the deck to stop the chain scratching that lovely Swan. Simple, easily installed, fully functional, no chain-weight in the bow and no foredeck acrobatics in storm conditions.


If you'd like to contact me direct (jmardall@comcast.net), and perhaps send some sketches or inboard profiles so that I can see what's inside the boat, I'll suggest a layout and system for you.


All the best
John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Boat Equipment


PS Don't forget that the boat should never be "anchored on the windlass". Once the anchor is set, the rode tension should be transferred to a chain stopper or snubber. Failure to do so may damage the windlass gearbox in heavy conditions. So, if you are going to use the existing shallow locker, which I assume is all the way forward, you've still got to devise a way to take the riding loads of the windlass.

[deluxe68]

Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL

Can we think outside the chain locker for a moment? (Sorry, I couldn't resist it) Whether the windlass has a vertical or horizontal shaft, the chain discharge has to be over the chain locker, so even with a horizontal windlass, you will need to build a deck extension over the locker, or reinforce and secure one of the half hatches as shown by a previous poster. With that done, with only 12" depth in the locker, you're going to need to spread the chain around as you retrieve it, or it will soon be piled up under the windlass and stop any additional chain drop (and therefore feed). All of that seems a bit half-baked to me and I definitely wouldn't enjoy it being on the bow, stirring the chain pile in rough conditions.
So, can we forget about the existing "chain locker", move the windlass much further aft on the foredeck, put a vertical chain pipe (4" PVC can be good) under it, and drop the chain into a box or bucket glassed in to a suitably deep part of the bilge? Then we can put a chain stopper far enough aft of the bow roller for the anchor to come all the way in, and put a stainless steel sheet metal plate on the deck to stop the chain scratching that lovely Swan. Simple, easily installed, fully functional, no chain-weight in the bow and no foredeck acrobatics in storm conditions.


If you'd like to contact me direct (jmardall@comcast.net), and perhaps send some sketches or inboard profiles so that I can see what's inside the boat, I'll suggest a layout and system for you.


All the best
John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Boat Equipment


PS Don't forget that the boat should never be "anchored on the windlass". Once the anchor is set, the rode tension should be transferred to a chain stopper or snubber. Failure to do so may damage the windlass gearbox in heavy conditions. So, if you are going to use the existing shallow locker, which I assume is all the way forward, you've still got to devise a way to take the riding loads of the windlass.

1. Do people really spend that much time retrieving anchors in storm conditions?

2. Following your advice, if I installed the windlass aft of the locker, I would have to cover the deck and the anchor locker cover with steel. And I would not be able to open the cover because the chain would be in the way.

3. I prefer not to have the chain/rope in the bilge because it would add more humidity and smell inside the boat.


Below is a picture of the locker area.

[MJH]

That's a beautiful looking teak deck...but not very practical. I also don't see any anchor roller setup already in place which may very well add to your windlass placement. It makes me wonder what the designer had in mind for anchoring...perhaps some correspondence with the manufacturer or other owners of the same model is in order for starters...no need to reinvent the wheel. But take it from me, rode coming in over the bow is going to bring a lot of crud with over the years even if you use an anchor washdown pump which you should also start thinking about as well. Overall, like my Tayana, I think the design would have been better without the doors and with a vertical windlass installed; a clean install and practical. That would be a much larger expense now but the outcome would be worth it.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[waterman46]

Routing the chain farther aft without moving the windlass is a possibility. We have two anchors on bow rollers with rodes ready to deploy. Windlass is vertical and fairly close to bow, so only room for one chain+rope rode directly under chainpipe. To add second rode 200 ft 5/8 chain, I added a 5" ID pvc pipe under the deck, inside the fore cabin, that routes the chain aft and down to a much larger space created by removing an air conditioning unit, under the bunks.

When cruising we have no crew using fore cabin so we leave the pipe assembled. It comes apart in sections that store under the bunk if we need to use those bunks for guests.

With this arrangement, weight of chain is low and farther aft. Never a problem with any odor from chain, but I do give it a pressure wash if it comes up fouled.

[GeneM]

Ditto on the chain stacking up. I have a deep locker, but have 250 ft of 3/8 in chain. It builds a mound of chain and jams, leaving chain and anchor out. I have to hammer and crow bar it loose. I've learned to clesr the mound if I have lots of chain out. You may get away with a rope rode instead. That should fake out better.