Replacing standing rigging... reuse toggles?

[GILow]

Hi all,

I am replacing my standing rigging, and I do not know if I should reuse or replace the toggles.

The rig is pretty conservative, 50' mast on a 42' boat, cutter rigged, 10 mm stays all round except for 8 mm intermediates.

Current rig shows no signs of trouble but is just about 20 years old, so time to go.

Tossing up between sta-lok vs swaged fittings at the moment, but that doesn't really affect this question.. at least I don't think so.

Thoughts? Keep or replace?

Picture of the sort of toggle on the boat, they are only fitted at the lower end of each stay, plain eye fittings at the top.

Matt

[JPA Cate]

We've never replaced toggles unless they looked like there might be a hairline crack, then they're outta here NOW!

Ann

[Painted Skies]

We replaced all our standing rigging ten years ago before we crossed the Pacific (when the boat was 20 years old) and found one turnbuckle at the shrouds was cracked - it was replaced but we reused the rest of them.

Twice a year we inspect all the rigging for damage when re-taping the split cotter pins. Really don't see any reason to replace the hardware unless there is an obvious issue that needs correcting.

[El Pinguino]

Scroll down to March 5th https://yachtcamomile.co.uk/2010/03/

He also has some interesting things to say about replacing his rig when he was in NZ...

I replaced all mine after the rig fell down in 1994 ( unknow to me at the time one turnbuckle had exploded just before I bought her .. 8 years old ) ..... renewed rig in 2004..... renewed rig and replaced all turnbuckles etc between 2014/15 so 20 years...

Ideally I would have Sta-lok top and bottom... currently all Sta-lok at deck level but only Sta-lok and tangs on the lowers... cap shrouds and intermediates are swaged at the top end.

Benefit of Sta-lok.... if you are in remote parts you can source rigging swaged at one end and maybe a foot overlength.... replace by yourself....

[GILow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Scroll down to March 5th https://yachtcamomile.co.uk/2010/03/

Right! That photo pretty well sealed the argument for me! Thanks EP! I am replacing them ALL!


He also has some interesting things to say about replacing his rig when he was in NZ...

Just reading that again, but Searig are on my list to contact.

I replaced all mine after the rig fell down in 1994 ( unknow to me at the time one turnbuckle had exploded just before I bought her .. 8 years old ) ..... renewed rig in 2004..... renewed rig and replaced all turnbuckles etc between 2014/15 so 20 years...

Ideally I would have Sta-lok top and bottom... currently all Sta-lok at deck level but only Sta-lok and tangs on the lowers... cap shrouds and intermediates are swaged at the top end.

Benefit of Sta-lok.... if you are in remote parts you can source rigging swaged at one end and maybe a foot overlength.... replace by yourself....

Yes, I would much rather have sta-lok. Just working on prices now.

-----

[GILow]

Originally Posted by Painted Skies

We replaced all our standing rigging ten years ago before we crossed the Pacific (when the boat was 20 years old) and found one turnbuckle at the shrouds was cracked - it was replaced but we reused the rest of them.

Twice a year we inspect all the rigging for damage when re-taping the split cotter pins. Really don't see any reason to replace the hardware unless there is an obvious issue that needs correcting.

I've really wrestled with this one, but in the end I think I will just sleep a little better if I replace my rig. Visually it is OK, but it is nearly 20 years old and I just feel like it has done enough time now.

[El Pinguino]

Rule #1
A bit like reefing... when you think you should do it... do it!
Don't go down the 'yesbut' road.....and try and talk yourself out of it...

Rule #2 ... see Rule #1

I've just been struggling with the yesbuts over a new main... Rule #1 has won...

I don't want to end up like this #1 ..... I kid you knot... owner reckoned it just needed a few 'homewardbounders' ... Tahiti 2014...

And you don't want to end up like #2.....

I sometimes think I was put on earth as a warning to others......

Oh... and S/S doesn't do 'visual'.. it is... then it isn't...

[GILow]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

...
Oh... and S/S doesn't do 'visual'.. it is... then it isn't...

I hear you. Had a forestay fail on the Austral 20. Damn thing looked fine.

Then it looked broken.

There was about a millisecond in between the two stages.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by El Pinguino

Rule #1
A bit like reefing... when you think you should [I] do it... do it!
Don't go down the 'yesbut' road.....and try and talk yourself out of it...
Rule #2 ... see Rule #1 ...

Indeed!

[GILow]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Indeed!

Sorry Gord, but where’s your reference for that statement? [emoji6]

[nhschneider]

When we re-rigged our main mast, not only did we replace the toggles, but we also replaced all the turnbuckles, mast tangs and roller furling systems for both the headsail and staysail.

Fair winds and calm seas.

[Cheechako]

Are you replacing the turnbuckles? Won't the toggles come with new turnbuckles? I had those (asian?) turnbuckles on the boat in my avatar. They seemed pretty good, although I wasn't that fond of the "jam nut" approach. When I re rigged I just bought open body complete USA turnbuckles for peace of mind. But I had a deep discount and things were cheaper then too.

[meirriba]

After 20 years of work I would not worry myself too much with the question. Meaning I would replace them without thinking too much.
Just consider that your new rig will be in place like what? Another 15-20 years? That means that you will be relying on toggles that will be 30? 40? years of age? Why tempt the god of metal fatigue?
The few toggles cannot cost so much...

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by meirriba

After 20 years of work I would not worry myself too much with the question. Meaning I would replace them without thinking too much.
Just consider that your new rig will be in place like what? Another 15-20 years? That means that you will be relying on toggles that will be 30? 40? years of age? Why tempt the god of metal fatigue?
The few toggles cannot cost so much...

It's a good point. Those type of toggles seem to be stamped out with little deburring of the sheared edges in the first place. So stress risers etc may be there and they've done their job. So either look at them closely with magnification or just replace.

[Elie]

In most of the cases, the rigging failure occurs at the juction of cables with swages more often at the lower connections. The cable itself do not suffer much unless it is over stressed(badly sized for the job!). So I think that if the cables can cut and reused for shorter shrouds is a good idea, I agree also the cables are not that costly compared to all the other fittings, turnbuckles, etc. fresh water, where salt do not affec the rigging, its life is seriously prolonged .
I had 2 dismatting incidents in my sailing life, one was due to a bad cutter pin(too small for the job!) that the owner new about but did nothing to replace it before a passage. The other was due to the sudden exploding of a closed boddy turnbucke(I hate closed boddy turnbuckles where corrosion occur secretly!) on a charted boat in a passage between St Croix and Tortola: not funny!. Inside the turnbuckle was totaly eaten by galvanic corrosion. I don't believe that the stay itself may be the cause of rigging failure. Naturaly, insurers would rather love that everything be replaced: You pay for it!!!