Leading lines to cockpit

[Dangen]

Next thing on my refit list is to have 3 reefing lines lead to the cockpit.
The plan is to install blocks at the mast base and to have a jiffy reef system with the lines going thru the blocks at the mast base then thru a deck organiser, then thru rope cluch, then the winch on the cabin top.

I would like to have some input on using low friction eye rings instead of blocks? And any input, suggestions or ideas on my project would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Dan

[model 10]

I suppose if you always reef correctly rings would work but in my world there is often a load on the line. I need blocks with bearings.

[Dangen]

Originally Posted by Guy

I suppose if you always reef correctly rings would work but in my world there is often a load on the line. I need blocks with bearings.

Just to be clear, I'm talking "high load" friction rings as per picture.

[s/v Moondancer]

Use Garhauer blocks, best bang for the buck.

You also need to be able to lock down the new tack from the cockpit. I used tack down hauls to the cockpit, doubles the number of blocks and lines but single line reefing systems often have too much friction to work well.

The halyard also has to come back to the cockpit. Everything should come back to the cockpit.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Reefing lines tend to suffer from lots, & lots of friction, coupled with not insignificant loads, when you're using them, so anything you can do to minimize this is wise. Ditto on protecting them from chafe.

I'm a big fan of the 2-line reefing system, meaning 1 line for the clew & 1 for the tack. And given my druthers I attach either a small, high load block to each reef point or a low friction ring. That way the reefing line isn't making such a sharp turn as it would by just going through a ring pressed into the sail, & the friction reduction is huge.

Antal makes some purpose designed blocks for mainsail clew reef points, though you can purchase a small, high load, ball bearing sheave from say Harken, & make your own from some aluminum plate. reef blocks-antal And there are plenty of small, high load blocks out there which will work for the task too.
Here's the Harken sheave page http://www.harken.com/productcategory.aspx?taxid=378

Whatever you use in terms of hardware, it's wise to protect the sail from being chafed by it. So adding an extra chafe patch (or two) helps, up to & including some UHMWPE. Along with adding a leather sleeve over blocks & hardware, or a Harken Block Sock.

The other thing which helps is to use spectra reefing lines. As they're much more chafe resistant, stretch less ergo less chafe again, & are super slippery, so once again, less chafe.
And I prefer having easy to replace, oversized, short spectra pendants where the lines go through blocks, cringles, & sail/boom hardware. Such as at the ends of the lines on the boom & at the tack. So that as things chafe, you only need to replace a few feet of line instead of the whole thing. And you can even use purpose designed chafe sleeve material to protect these, along with Maxi Jacket as well. It'll extend the line's life by quite a bit.

Also, it rarely hurts to add chafe protection to reefing lines wherever they routinely touch hardware, even if it's only a coat of Maxi Jacket. And this is especially true where lines go through clutches. Which, bulk up your reefing lines in these clutch areas to the maximum size which will fit through the clutch. It maximizes holding, & lessens chafe. Especially when you add an extra layer of cover on the outside of your reefing line in this area.

And I'm a big fan of color coding my reefing lines. So that each tack & clew reef line are the same color, but different from every other line on the mast or cabin top. Particularly when viewed after dark, with or without a flashlight, be it a red tinted one or white. So choose patterns that are easy to discern under all of these lighting (& low/no light) conditions.


EDIT: On the low friction rings vs. blocks at the mast base (& elsewhere) question. Consider that your reefing lines are loaded about as heavily as are your halyards & sheets. So given that would you use a low friction ring instead of a sheave (block) for the halyard? The choice is yours of course, but... just offering a bit of perspective.

[roverhi]

The frictionless rings as you are turning to be lines less than 45 degrees. They seem to be replacing blocks in a lot of situations so must work but no personal experience. I used deck organizers from Garhauer for my double line reefing system. Ran the tack lines and main halyard to stbd and flew lines and outhaul to port. Left jib and spinnaker halyard at the mast along with Cunningham. Have old style bangs from boom to deck at the rail adjustable from cockpit. Topping lift Is a 3 part tackle with jam cleat at the end of the boom.

[Training Wheels]

Originally Posted by Dangen

Next thing on my refit list is to have 3 reefing lines lead to the cockpit.
The plan is to install blocks at the mast base and to have a jiffy reef system with the lines going thru the blocks at the mast base then thru a deck organiser, then thru rope cluch, then the winch on the cabin top.

I would like to have some input on using low friction eye rings instead of blocks? And any input, suggestions or ideas on my project would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Dan

Works for me.
[ATTACH]155751

Consider running the lines through the clutches first, then the organizers, then the winch. That way you always have a good angle on the clutch. You can even run the line to a different winch if you need to.
[ATTACH]155752

[model 10]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Also, it rarely hurts to add chafe protection to reefing lines wherever they routinely touch hardware, even if it's only a coat of Maxi Jacket. And this is especially true where lines go through clutches. Which, bulk up your reefing lines in these clutch areas to the maximum size which will fit through the clutch. It maximizes holding, & lessens chafe. Especially when you add an extra layer of cover on the outside of your reefing line in this area..

Can't seem to figure out how to splice on a bit of cover so it does not have a bunch of stiching or a lump at the end. ?

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Works for me.
[ATTACH]155751

Consider running the lines through the clutches first, then the organizers, then the winch. That way you always have a good angle on the clutch. You can even run the line to a different winch if you need to.
[ATTACH]155752

That works only with certain deck layouts that permit the lines from the mast to go to the clutches first. Many layouts go mastrganizer to turn them aft, then clutch.

[Chuck Hawley]

My two cents: the best lines to run to a cockpit (or a convenient place from which to adjust them) are lines that need to be adjusted often. Obviously sheets, but also boom vang, cunningham, genoa furling, etc.

One of the few lines on my boat that doesn't go to the cockpit is the outhaul, and guess what? It doesn't get adjusted as frequently as it should.

When it comes to second and third reefs, you're dealing with a lot of load (and therefore friction and chafe), and infrequent use. I know you can argue that the last time you want to be out of the cockpit is when you're hauling in on a third reef outhaul, but it's infrequent. The additional length of all of these lines leading to the cockpit increases stretch, too, and stretch is the enemy of a good, flat, reefed sail.

So, my suggestion is that you consider the shortest, least stretchy, most chafe free solution at the mast for the second and third reefs. Ideally the reefing tacks would be rings that go over a tack hook, and the outhauls would be Spectra with jammers.

Cheers,

Chuck

[demacsea]

Presumably you'll bring your main halyard and topping lift back to the cockpit too?

[Dockhead]

Low friction rings are actually quite HIGH friction, compared to good blocks. So they are not as good, for applications which are really sensitive to friction, or where you have a great deal of line running through them, or where the angle of turn is large.

But for reefing lines they are fine. They are cheaper, more compact, and more trouble-free, than blocks.

[Don C L]

I vote for blocks!!

[Dangen]

Originally Posted by demacsea

Presumably you'll bring your main halyard and topping lift back to the cockpit too?

Yes, they already are,

[blueazimuth]

Uncivilized is exactly right, as are others - blocks, blocks, blocks...
The higher cost will be forgotten when, as we all do, we reef too little, too late...

I will add that marking the lines when in their correct stopper position is helpful.

Daytime, magic marker works well. At night? You need to feel it - sewing through the line, with sail thread, several times, could work.
Or try whipping twine, leaving inch or two tails that you can feel - ala tie wraps on the anchor chain.