2002 lagoon 410

[Xtalpowell]

Hello, I have been looking at a 2002 lagoon 410 in Florida and am very close to making an offer. The boat looks to be in excellent condition,well taken care of and has some nice upgrades. Such as ac/heat,northernlights Gen and new electrical panels. If anyone has input as to how these boats were made, any problems that can be expected and what the approximate value is I would be very interested in any info. This will be our first sailboat. Also it is the owners version.

Thanks. Rich

[PaulinOz]

The vessel is 15 years old so in your pre-purchase Survey process, I would have a rigging inspection by a competent person to ascertain if standing rigging has been replaced or is original. The condition of this could alter your offer, if repair/replacement is required.

[Xtalpowell]

Thanks, that is one thing that I have been thinking about. I assume that all the standing rigging is stainless but I'm not sure what grade is standard equipment. I would think it would be 316ss or better.

Rich

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by Xtalpowell

Thanks, that is one thing that I have been thinking about. I assume that all the standing rigging is stainless but I'm not sure what grade is standard equipment. I would think it would be 316ss or better.

Rich

Rigging is usually aluminium spars with various grades of stainless steel and other metal types used for fittings and stays. Most of this stuff looks nice and shiny when it breaks, so don't go by looks.

As PaulinOz advises, get a competent rigger who knows how to find the early signs of deterioration before things break. Also, find and pay for an expert surveyor of your choosing, not the broker's recommendation. Make sure they understand the constuction of Lagoon catamarans. Make sure they know the difference between a structural bulkhead and a sikaflexed partition. Haul out for a poper below waterline inspection. Shadow him/her, ask questions, look, learn, prod, poke, lift every hatch, inspect, smell, search every nook and cranny. Look for signs of timber rot around the saloon doorway, kitchen cabinetry below window and saloon flooring inside doorway. Thus is a known weakness of the L410. Put it back in the water. Sail the boat, motor it at full revs, make sure every system works properly or not. Be totally satisfied that every fault is found, listed and quantified. You will find faults; every boat has some. Especially 15 year old ones.

Once all defects are identified, start negotiating price. Good luck!

[Xtalpowell]

Great advice. Thanks for the info. There is no broker involved with this sale and I have contacted a surveyor that was recommended to me by a good friend whom I trust. I will keep posting here to let people know how things go with the surveying and buying process. I'm an engineer and quite familiar with mechanics and boats in general. I have owned several power boats but like I said this is our first sailboat. We are really looking forward to finding the right boat

[Xtalpowell]

Another question.
I looked up the price of this boat new and found that it sold for $311,000.00 in 2002. The asking price now is $239,000.00
This seems very high to me. I went on nada and plugged in all the equipment that this boat has and the list price in excellent condition was only 160,000.00

Am I missing something? I would think there is considerable depreciation on this boat from new.

[PaulinOz]

The selling price will be somewhere between what you are willing to pay for the vessel and what the current owner is prepared to accept.

History, original purchase price, other similar vessels sold & web sites are all indications of value, but just that an indication.

We all want to pay the lowest price possible to purchase our dream vessel, but remember there will come a time you want to sell it at the highest price possible to move it on.

While in negotiations keep in mind who has which hat on. If making a low ball offer have some facts to back it up eg: X,Y & Z needs to be repaired/replaced at a cost of this etc etc

Good luck.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Xtalpowell

Another question.

I looked up the price of this boat new and found that it sold for $311,000.00 in 2002. The asking price now is $239,000.00

This seems very high to me. I went on nada and plugged in all the equipment that this boat has and the list price in excellent condition was only 160,000.00



Am I missing something? I would think there is considerable depreciation on this boat from new.

Nada is useless when it comes to cruising catamarans. Have your surveyor pull up the soldboats.com comps for the boat. This would be much more accurate but not foolproof.

[LeeV]

If the electrical panels were replaced, ask if the boat suffered a lightning strike, which might suggest looking for other issues. I've seen a couple of listings recently mentioning a strike. Good luck with your search!

[mfotis]

I purchased a 2004 Lagoon 410 S2 and the bank had the NADA at $189,000. By the time I closed the deal (less than 6 weeks) it had somehow depreciated to $182,000. Fast forward to insurance time....they had it listed for $211,000 and wanted to know why I got the boat for the price that I did. I told them the bank booked it at the above...I offered X and they accepted. After a few years of looking I've yet to see a cat listed in the US anywhere near the NADA value.

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by tuskie

Once all defects are identified, start negotiating price. Good luck!

My understanding of the typical boat buying process is:
1. Do your own due diligence - look at photos, do a personal inspection, etc.
2. Make an offer contingent on a successful survey / sea-trial
3. The owner has to either repair all issues found in survey or reach a mutually agreeable reduction in price to cover the defects.

So the primary price negotiation would be before identifying defects.

Am I mistaken somehow or are there variations to the process?

Thanks

[Xtalpowell]

This is turning out to be an interesting process, from boat owners telling me that they have a sure thing buyer only to get a message a few days later that if I'm interested the boat is still for sale.
My surveyor told me that I should negotiate a price contingent on a good survey so I'm not out a survey and the boat gets sold to someone else.

The banks value of the boat is way below the asking price.

Boats outside the US seem to be much lower in price.

Catamarans are obviously not toyotas or hondas, it seems that this market may be somewhat driven by impulse and emotion. Lol.

Brokers will try to sell you anything, I guess that's for the 10% commission which seems like a lot to me.
I'll be calling the bank,boat owner and surveyor again tomorrow.
More to follow.

[ranchero76]

Proper contract says "buyer agrees to buy (something) for $xxx, subject to inspection, (survey, sea trial, whatever)". So it's always buyer's choice what to do if he's not happy with survey results. Basically, if survey is not perfect, it's whole new starting point for negotiation. Seller can walk away too, of course, if he's hoping to find buyer with deeper pockets.
And, of course, you can make contract without broker, just do research first and be careful.

[surf_sail]

Originally Posted by Xtalpowell

Boats outside the US seem to be much lower in price.



.

I'm currently looking at 40 foot Monohulls and I have found the same thing. I think the price can be 20-30% less in the eu. I confirmed this also by looking at list prices for new boats where a new Beneteau 40 foot base model is 50k less form a Munich dealer versus one in the US. Personally I won't pay the US premium even though I'd rather start in the us for personal reasons. But if I want the boat here it's only 15k to ship it...

[Xtalpowell]

I'm assuming there is a significant import tax on new boats.

Good luck. What makes are you looking at? I have always liked island packet boats. If I were to buy a monohull that's what it would be.