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Old 06-07-2012, 21:52   #121
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Re: sad news from the boating world

No one inside a boat USUALLY wears life jackets, when **** happens panic sets in, the timeframe probably was very short...

Where are the kid's???? Snuggled inside safe playing their I-phones.....End of story, no crime in that.

No one knows the true scenario outside of those there at the time and even that will be very very confused.
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Old 06-07-2012, 22:52   #122
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
I completely agree. While I'm glad he saved a couple of people, that doesn't make his post appropriate.
I have actually saved 5 lives, 4 from drowning and one from electrocution.
However, 3 of those were white folk.
That make me a racist?
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Old 06-07-2012, 23:08   #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us
No one inside a boat USUALLY wears life jackets, when **** happens panic sets in, the timeframe probably was very short...

Where are the kid's???? Snuggled inside safe playing their I-phones.....End of story, no crime in that.

No one knows the true scenario outside of those there at the time and even that will be very very confused.
I have a bunch of opinions on this. Really doesn't matter. Hurts the whole bad thing hurts and I have no desire to speculate, be punitive or outraged. It's to sad. I can't imagine a thought that could offer condolence to the surviving occupants of that boat.
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Old 06-07-2012, 23:49   #124
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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Originally Posted by sabray View Post
I have a bunch of opinions on this. Really doesn't matter. Hurts the whole bad thing hurts and I have no desire to speculate, be punitive or outraged. It's to sad. I can't imagine a thought that could offer condolence to the surviving occupants of that boat.
TOTALLY AGREE VERY SAD.
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Old 07-07-2012, 00:14   #125
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United States Power Squadrons says multiply the length by the beam and divide by 15, to figure out the cap. of a small pleasure boat.

My Clipper Marine aft cabin 32 ketch with a 8 foot beam sleeps 6, but this safety org. Says my boat safely holds 17! Bs.

Look at seating, look at berths, and I would say work with one number or the other, don't add them together. In bad weather, darkness, parties, celebrations where people around you are drinking in other boats, cut the seating limit in half.

Who will rot in hell the longest? Lawyers of insurance companies covering the blood trail of dead children
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Old 07-07-2012, 00:46   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us
TOTALLY AGREE VERY SAD.
Didn't mean to post that sentiment associated with your post. Technology fluke that was my error.
My apology.
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:06   #127
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Re: sad news from the boating world

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryMayo View Post
United States Power Squadrons says multiply the length by the beam and divide by 15, to figure out the cap. of a small pleasure boat.

My Clipper Marine aft cabin 32 ketch with a 8 foot beam sleeps 6, but this safety org. Says my boat safely holds 17! Bs.
Do you have a link to that...?

My sailboat:
44 x 13 = 572
572 / 15 = 38.13 (in your dreams!)

My runabout:
20 x 6 = 126
126 / 15 = 8 (max capacity plate says 6, and i wouldn't go above that!)

....obviously there is a limit to that formula....
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:22   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandHopper

Do you have a link to that...?

My sailboat:
44 x 13 = 572
572 / 15 = 38.13 (in your dreams!)

My runabout:
20 x 6 = 126
126 / 15 = 8 (max capacity plate says 6, and i wouldn't go above that!)

....obviously there is a limit to that formula....
http://www.usps.org/newpublic2/about.html

This is the link that was published in one of the mytimes stories in this thread, page 7 or 8. I took the nytimes word for the math numbers and how to use them. That may be a problem. Lol
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:44   #129
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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Originally Posted by sabray View Post
Didn't mean to post that sentiment associated with your post. Technology fluke that was my error.
My apology.
Thats cool i understood... Cheers
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:49   #130
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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Originally Posted by GaryMayo View Post
United States Power Squadrons says multiply the length by the beam and divide by 15, to figure out the cap. of a small pleasure boat.

My Clipper Marine aft cabin 32 ketch with a 8 foot beam sleeps 6, but this safety org. Says my boat safely holds 17! Bs.

Look at seating, look at berths, and I would say work with one number or the other, don't add them together. In bad weather, darkness, parties, celebrations where people around you are drinking in other boats, cut the seating limit in half.

Who will rot in hell the longest? Lawyers of insurance companies covering the blood trail of dead children
LMAO and 67 for our 44 ft cat!!!!!! Nearly 3 tonne of passengers!!!!! Something wrong there!!!
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Old 07-07-2012, 03:10   #131
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Re: sad news from the boating world

Looking at this maybe that formula only applies to boats of 20ft or less ?

http://fishandboat.com/anglerboater/...1/cappmath.pdf

Seems to make more sense, also easy to see how someone could be confused if the limitations of said formula where not understood....
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Old 07-07-2012, 04:33   #132
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Re: sad news from the boating world

Apart from the CG being given an easy reason to stop the boat heading towards disaster I don't see that whether or not everyone had lifejackets is really relevant. Indeed if the CG has spotted them I would hope they would come up with another reason or at least persuade some of those onboard that they were putting selves in grave danger - which would probably kybosh the whole trip.

If the kids were down below, the odds are strong (with that many people onboard) they were not alone - when it comes to a sudden evacuation (from a boat flooding with water and likely not level) the stampede for the single exit would have been great - and even when they got to the exit may not have been room in the cockpit. Women and children first? I would not always bet on that.......
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:55   #133
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Re: sad news from the boating world

We recently purchased a 36 Mainship Aft Cabin boat. This is a comfortable 4 to 6 person boat. While looking at furniture for the Sun Deck above the Aft Cabin, we looked at the smallest comfortable chairs and smallest possible table. What we came up with is a table less than 2' square, 2 small wicker chairs and 1 folding Directors Chair. That will seat 3 people + one more sitting on the steps leading up to the fly bridge. That's it - 4 people total on that deck. The FlyBridge will also fit 4 people. So will the galley and the main salon might fit 5. If everyone remained in their respective places and no one were to move at all, this could be workable. But if people got up and moved about to get drinks or snacks this would be way overloaded. And this is a 2 foot longer boat with 10 less people than they had. The only way this could have been done was to take these extra 10 people and stand them up on the fore deck.
There is no way in hell that the owner could NOT have known this was dangerous even if he was new to the boat. What also amazed me was that the passengers themselves couldn't 'feel' this was dangerous even if they were not boaters.
I know when a ladder 'feels' dangerous. I know when swinging rope bridge 'feels' dangerous. I have not read anything about anyone that said they got off the boat before it left the dock. This is kind of mind blowing to me.
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Old 07-07-2012, 05:56   #134
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Re: sad news from the boating world

Just speculating -- but if anyone on that boat was wearing PFDs it was likely the kids. Focusing on PFDs is the wrong end of the equation; this accident was preventable. Everyone was saved except the kids who were inside the cabin, and we don't know whether they were wearing PFDs. If they were wearing them, it might be what killed them:

That boat would have sunk in a stern-down, bow-up attitude, which means anyone in the cabin wearing a PFD would not have been able to escape the air bubble in the bow by swimming down and out. In that situation, the PFD would need to be removed so the wearer could get out.

We can only speculate about what happened in the darkness and panic until more info comes out.

BTW -- I don't think criminal charges should be filed. These were family and friends out for a good time -- the skipper will carry a heavy burden for the rest of his life, and the loss is immeasurable. It will take a heavy toll as it is. You can't fix stupid with jail time. Likely there will be lawsuits and some public servant will prosecute to further his career too. In the end, many lives ruined and lost -- a tragedy.
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Old 07-07-2012, 06:13   #135
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Re: sad news from the boating world

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..........Who will rot in hell the longest? Lawyers of insurance companies covering the blood trail of dead children
The insurance company lawyers invited all of these people aboard and were driving the boat? If that is true then yes, they should be held accountable.
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