Provisioning: Who Picks Up the Tab?

[osirissail]

The only legal liability is to try to thwart the stated USCG policy on "commercial versus private" operation of a vessel. The USCG states plainly that crew on a voluntary basis can only pay their share of "actual" expenses which is an "after the fact" division of expenses. Any "pre-payment" or "set $/day" share constitutes "commercial" operation. The USCG determination of "private versus commercial operation" is available on-line.

[Charlie]

I think it is a case by case determination. If I really need someone I might pay airfare but for the most part I don't pay for transportation and I usually split the food. I pay for diesel and marinas b/c it is my boat. The destinations I have been going on have been fun places and downwind. When it comes time to do the Baja Bash I will probably pay for all meals on the boat and if I have to plane tickets but I find that their are enough people who are willing to pay their own flights that I usually don't need to pay for the flights. Best advice is to make it clear upfront so people can make their own decisions.

[bewitched]

I think you need to differentiate between delivery crew or cruising crew

Delivery crew are paid, cruising crew are not.

What expenses the cruising crew contribute to is a matter between the owner and the crew and should be agreed beforehand. In my opinion, sailing experience and ability doesn't come into it much.

I think it's perfectly acceptable for crew to pay their portion of marina fees, fuel, food etc.

[MarkJ]

Booze and cruising.

I was on a boat once where the charter guests were not allowed to drink while we were at sea.

It all seemed quite draconian, pedantic and imature to me, and highly irritating to the paying guests!

I drink while we are at sea.

Not a lot, not enough to get pickled, not enough to get me over the car drinking limit.

It needs to be a good night, not stormy and one of my nights where I knock off at 7pm and Nicolle goes through till 12nm.

I would let any guest or crew do the same.

For me, if I couldn't trust the friend or crew to not get drnunk then they wouldn't be on my boat at all


Mark

[fishwife]

Despite my flippant 'depends on how needy you are for crew' reply earlier, day sailing along a coast, I don't need crew and I'm happy to do it alone. If someone requests to join me for a day or so, then there is food on board and we'll eat that and I'd not think of asking for a contribution. If they wanted to leave before we got back to home port then I'd expect them to pay for their own transportation. If I need someone to stand watches and be reliable, then I'd consider their labour to be all the contribution needed and give them a gift when they left the boat, as well as paying for their transportation. As for paying/contributing towards diesel and marina costs, surely you would have incurred those costs whatever. Perhaps it's OK to ask people to pay for formalities when entering a new country but I'm not happy with that either. To paraphrase the Chief 'there are a lot of exploitive illegitimate children' who seek crew on very uneven terms. Don't get me started on the men who expect you to contribute, sleep with them, cook and even hand wash their smelly underwear.

[zeehag]

i was on a bayfield 36 in usvi last december---i was spozed to not have to pay for food or any other boating thing--just my own needs on shore---guess what--the skipper--was not a cpt---decided i should have to pay for half of all after the fact--he unlawfully ditched me in st john, usvi after 3 weeks of a month sail cruise-----

this time,different boat-- we agree to half or close to it the food and marinas and such--has worked out well.....not paid crew here either---have been sailing almost 3000 miles already since june of this year.....sharing works....

[Chief Engineer]

zeehag, my friend, did you pursue any charges?

There should be a site for vermin like that to be reported.

No Names....Just "If a bearded guy with a Boat name S/V "Farkledarkle" asks to crew with him....don't"

[fishwife]

A friend of mine reported helping out a woman who had been abandoned in Ushuaia, as winter was approaching. Words fail me.

Paige

[osirissail]

I do not think that voluntary crewing on a private boat is ever free. It is just the "currency" is different if you are a male crew or a female crew. (sorry, can't resist) - and that may reverse if sailing near San Francisco.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by fishwife

A friend of mine reported helping out a woman who had been abandoned in Ushuaia, as winter was approaching. Words fail me.

Paige

2 sides to a story.... Listen to the other side before banging your head.... she may have needed to go.

[fishwife]

I agree Mark and I've had crew that have driven me mad. My friend reported that she had been dumped, in the clothes she stood in with the guy just sailing off with all her possessions, money, passport and her credit card.
When you ask a crew to leave, you owe them the basic decency of making sure they can survive and get back to their own country, IMHO.

[MarkJ]

Originally Posted by fishwife

When you ask a crew to leave, you owe them the basic decency of making sure they can survive and get back to their own country, IMHO.

Absolutly.

[Tom Hildebrandt]

I have had lots, perhaps 50 of these volunteer crew who have been on my boat in the past six years. In all cases, they share in operating expenses, if it is a day or two trip of daysailing , they buy the groceries and food , they cook, and we have a fun relaxed time. There is no set watch standing. If the trip is longer, they pay a set fee a day, usually between $10 and $15 USD a day, with that money in hand, we all go shopping and buy provisions, they do general housekeeping and stand watches. In return, they learn a bit about sailing and watchstanding, some learn to cook, and all experience the cruising lifestyle. Most have no experience but I have had a professional skipper as well as fellow who had circumnavigated come onboard under these same basic guidelines.

As one miight imagine with these numbers of folks, there have been good and bad stories. But the diversity has been lots of fun, all sexes, all sexual persuasions, many countries and all major religious groups, (I have had jews and muslims on board, not at the same time, aethists and agnostics and charasmatic christians, yes at the same time.) So lots of lively discussionand to those who approached the discussions with an open mind, I would think a rewarding experience. It certainly has been for me.

As has been posted, the understandings and expectations have to be clear, not just about the dollars and cents, but the work expected as well. I have no written agreement, but I do have an 8 page set of protocols that is provided the first day on board, my sort of lessons learned the hard way, and < make sure that everyone has read them by the second day. On a couple of occasions, people have left Juno on the third day, the expectations and/or personalities did not match. We just had an adult conversation, shared a beerr and they were off to do whatever they wish to do.

Tom

[daysailc]

In SHORT....
You get what you pay FOR !!!

[jkleins]

If they are just sailing with me I treat them as guests in my home and would not charge them anything and provide them with food and drink. They in turn might bring a bottle of wine or something as any good guest would. If they were really crew I needed to get somewhere I would pay them. Food and expenses might be enough for some inexperienced crew or good friends but not strangers or others asked to go due to need.

I have been treated this way in the past by others and have always treated people on my boat this way. I would be a surprised by a request by the boat owner for cash to share the expenses unless it was agreed to well ahead of time.

Jim