Upwind motoring while using a reefed main and a storm sail?

[Yngvepau]

I am moving my Tartan 3700 from San Diego to Seattle in the summer. I have been told that I could gain some forward momentum using an ATN storm sail while beating directly into the wind as supposed to using my 130% genoa (furled up to 30-40%) with a bigger angle off the wind. These storm sails retail for around 1300-1500 and would like some opinions from sailors that have experience doing this.

The plan is to motor with a reefed main sail and the storm sail heading a few degrees into the wind.

Any and all comments are welcomed

Thanks

Yngve

[siamese]

How many degrees off the wind? Give us a number?

[Panope]

Yngve,

Cruisers forum member Delmarrey did this same trip last year and gave a detailed account in this thread:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...nm-172548.html

He experimented with using some sail to augment the engine but found it was better to just motor.

Steve

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Yngvepau

I am moving my Tartan 3700 from San Diego to Seattle in the summer. ...........................
.................................................. ..
The plan is to motor with a reefed main sail and the storm sail heading a few degrees into the wind.

Any and all comments are welcomed

Thanks

Yngve

Originally Posted by Panope

He experimented with using some sail to augment the engine but found it was better to just motor.

I would forget the jib and use the mainsail for steadying, and, more importantly, at least once north of SF, look for NO WIND days. Passage Weather is great for this.

Here's how I did it:

I've posted our log here:

Travels with Aquavite: San Francsico Bay to British Columbia 2016

[conachair]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

..... at least once north of SF, look for NO WIND days. Passage Weather is great for this.

Even better

https://www.fastseas.com

[Yngvepau]

Originally Posted by siamese

How many degrees off the wind? Give us a number?

Being that the prevailing wind is predominately out of the north, I assume +/- 10 off the nose.

[Yngvepau]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

I would forget the jib and use the mainsail for steadying, and, more importantly, at least once north of SF, look for NO WIND days. Passage Weather is great for this.

Here's how I did it:

I've posted our log here:

Travels with Aquavite: San Francsico Bay to British Columbia 2016

I read your entire blog and was VERY impressed. Thank you SO much for ALL that info. Invaluable...... Im hoping to do it a lot quicker, being that it is position to my new home. But your review of all the ports and harbors WILL definitely help.

Thanks again

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Yngvepau

...... Im hoping to do it a lot quicker, being that it is position to my new home. But your review of all the ports and harbors WILL definitely help.

Thanks again

Understood. You're very welcome. Safe journey. Perhaps we'll meet up here. You could pm me when you get here. Fair winds. & Good weather!

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

...I've posted our log here:

Travels with Aquavite: San Francsico Bay to British Columbia 2016

Stu--

I just read through most of your log. Very interesting/entertaining and very informative. A good/worthwhile read and I thank you for your efforts. I must add, however, that I don't miss the weather on the west coast, even remotely!

Take care...

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Stu--

I just read through most of your log. Very interesting/entertaining and very informative. A good/worthwhile read and I thank you for your efforts. I must add, however, that I don't miss the weather on the west coast, even remotely!

Take care...

Glad you enjoyed it.

Heck, what's not to like about the weather here 3-7 cm of snow coming today, some's down already. :smile :

The first snow my 30 year old boat ever saw (and in our 18 years with her) was on my birthday back in December. Next up: sailing in it!

[a64pilot]

I am no real sailor, but I do this all the time, usually if squeezed real tight like in this photo I will use my Staysail and Main as I can't sheet my 135% Genoa in tight enough without it chafing on my spreader, in this picture I'm running the engine at a speed that will give 3 or 4 kts, the rest is coming from the sails, and it makes bashing to windward much more comfortable.
As you know an IP is not known as a boat that points real high, but using the engine, she does and fuel burn in in the neighborhood of a half gallon an hour.
The picture is apparent wind of course, not true and the engine's assistance drives it further towards the bow.
This is full main and Staysail

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

Glad you enjoyed it.

Heck, what's not to like about the weather here 3-7 cm of snow coming today, some's down already. :smile :

The first snow my 30 year old boat ever saw (and in our 18 years with her) was on my birthday back in December. Next up: sailing in it!

Stu--

In the late 1970's I was a project manager on a federal project in Anchorage Alaska and worked out of an office with John Graham & Co. in down town Seattle, commuting weekly from our home in San Francisco. One one occasion when I couldn't get home for the weekend I was invited to sail with one of the fellows from JG&C that had a boat in the down town marina, on a Saturday afternoon in late December. We sailed over to Blakely Harbor on Bainbridge Island and anchored up. When it was time to head back, his engine (an old A-4) wouldn't start despite all manner efforts. With not a heck of a lot of wind, we had to wait for the ebb to "drift" out of the harbor, near mid-night before we had enough wind to lift the sails. We finally had a knot or two of headway but then it began to snow! Little, persistent, sticky flurries with a "hushed" sound. We soldiered on, slowly, sweeping snowflakes off the compass from time to time. Then, out of the night, came the sound of singing. Christmas carols--"Silent Night". Shortly a red gloom appeared ahead that emerged from the snowy murk as the port bow of a CG patrol boat motoring slowly and quietly on a reciprocal course. They hit us with a spotlight for a moment (blinding us!), closed with our port rail and inquired whether we were okay or needed assistance. Our skipper explained our situation but averred that we were quite okay. (I on the other hand might have preferred a tow!) With that, they wished us well and went on their way and we, slowly, in the hush of the falling snow, ours. We finally made it back to the marina where our skipper made a last, wishful, try with his motor. Of course, then, the darned thing coughed a few times, but started! We dropped the sails (with no shortage of snow going down the backs of out necks!) and putt-putted to his slip. An Irish Coffee below afterward never tasted quite so good. Sailing in a snow fall is a memory I'll never forget (but wouldn't care to ever repeat!)

Sailing in the northwest was quite beautiful, especially trips to the San Juans and particularly Orcus where our extended family had a cottage, in Beach Haven, just above West Beach. It was great save for swimming (too darned cold!). Hopefully it hasn't changed all that much.

FWIW...

[Dockhead]

Forget the jib for this -- mainsail alone, made as flat as possible, traveller hard to windward, about 15 to 20 degrees AWA, depending on your boat. You want the flattened main to be just drawing -- watch the telltales, and steer in wind mode if your pilot does that.

If the boat sails reasonably well upwind, you will be far more comfortable just sailing a long offshore tack and playing the wind shifts.


I've BTDT, three years in a row sailing back to the UK from Finland at the end of every summer, 1500 miles against the prevailing wind, which usually contrives to blow right on the nose. I've tried everything, and on my boat at least, sailing and tacking is best. Reasons:

1. You are not bashing into the head seas as squarely.

2. You can play wind shifts -- sail the lifted tack.

3. VMG to windward is generally not worse than motorsailing at a closer wind angle.

4. Boat motion is more comfortable when the rig is loaded up.

5. Obviously noise and diesel fuel consumption.

Downsides are it's more work, and more heeling.


Making your boat sail better upwind pays huge dividends for this kind of trip. For me it was a high aspect blade jib which can be sheeted inside the shrouds, and a carbon laminate main with battens

[Cheechako]

I agree with not using the 130 headsail. I think you should just pick up a used 90-100% jib for windy conditions or for motorsailing. Those sails often don't get used that much and I bet there are some nice ones out there reasonable. It doesnt have to be specifically for your boat, many with the luff length close or a bit short and good cloth weight would be fine.

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

Stu--

In the late 1970's I was a project manager on a federal project in Anchorage Alaska and worked out of an office with John Graham & Co. in down town Seattle, commuting weekly from our home in San Francisco. One one occasion when I couldn't get home for the weekend I was invited to sail with one of the fellows from JG&C that had a boat in the down town marina, on a Saturday afternoon in late December. We sailed over to Blakely Harbor on Bainbridge Island and anchored up. When it was time to head back, his engine (an old A-4) wouldn't start despite all manner efforts. With not a heck of a lot of wind, we had to wait for the ebb to "drift" out of the harbor, near mid-night before we had enough wind to lift the sails. We finally had a knot or two of headway but then it began to snow! Little, persistent, sticky flurries with a "hushed" sound. We soldiered on, slowly, sweeping snowflakes off the compass from time to time. Then, out of the night, came the sound of singing. Christmas carols--"Silent Night". Shortly a red gloom appeared ahead that emerged from the snowy murk as the port bow of a CG patrol boat motoring slowly and quietly on a reciprocal course. They hit us with a spotlight for a moment (blinding us!), closed with our port rail and inquired whether we were okay or needed assistance. Our skipper explained our situation but averred that we were quite okay. (I on the other hand might have preferred a tow!) With that, they wished us well and went on their way and we, slowly, in the hush of the falling snow, ours. We finally made it back to the marina where our skipper made a last, wishful, try with his motor. Of course, then, the darned thing coughed a few times, but started! We dropped the sails (with no shortage of snow going down the backs of out necks!) and putt-putted to his slip. An Irish Coffee below afterward never tasted quite so good. Sailing in a snow fall is a memory I'll never forget (but wouldn't care to ever repeat!)

Sailing in the northwest was quite beautiful, especially trips to the San Juans and particularly Orcus where our extended family had a cottage, in Beach Haven, just above West Beach. It was great save for swimming (too darned cold!). Hopefully it hasn't changed all that much.

FWIW...

Beside the point to such an interesting sea yarn, but I would speculate you had either a) a flake of debris occluding the fuel pick-up; after the partial vacuum created by the fuel pump ceased, it could have fallen off, or b) you had a partial occlusion of the vent line, which is often partially clogged with spider debris. The engine will run for a few minutes until the pump can't overcome the decreasing pressure in the tank thanks to the vent line not venting properly. Then the motor will slow and stop. Then some period of time later, when the tank's internal pressure is again that of the atmosphere, you can sputter back to life until the same thing happens again.

Guess how I learned all this?