Spring lines

[Factor]

Originally Posted by markpierce

Sorry, but if you don't use the correct nomenclature/jargon, you will be looked upon either as an ignoramous or at best an amateur.

Thanks for your assessment. I appreciate your courtesy.

Did you not see the the smiley face? The nomenclature is correct in my and indeed many parts of the world, its a bit like the IALA system that reverses in the USA, just because you do it that way doesn't make it correct.

The Australian Boating Manual is a standard text for the attainment of a Masters qualification and is the source reference in judicial marine matters. SO my use is correct where I sail and where I hold and was issued my qualification.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by southace

Next time I dock,moor,park the boat and the crew asks which spring first SKIPPER I will just say I dont give a rats arse which line (springer goes on first) they are all just lines !! haha

I dont have that problem, I am perfectly able to berth the boat on my own. But given the confusion evidenced here, perhaps what sensible skippers should do is ensure that they explain to the crew what their definition of each line is so there is no confusion. Sticking with Gandy's terminology seems sensible to me given you are in Australia.

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by southace

Next time I dock,moor,park the boat and the crew asks which spring first SKIPPER I will just say I dont give a rats arse which line (springer goes on first) they are all just lines !! haha

No, you would say something like "take the line from the boat's stern cleat and fasten it to the dock cleat near the boat's bow" while pointing appropriately. Hopefully, you would have already instructed the crew about the definitions of "bow" and "stern" and "cleat." That's assuming the crew knows the difference between "boat" and "dock."

Sorry. I admit to being "short-tempered" around incompetence. It's my weakness.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by southace

No your not a Lousy teacher but careful what you teach! Its clear after the inspection of the diagrams that there are two schools of thought here.....and its nothing to do with Aussies

Actually it might be an Aussie thing.

I am looking at Jim Murrant's (an Aussie)The Boating Bible. On page 100 he has labeled a line leading forward from an an stern cleat as a an Aft or stern spring and a line leading aft a bow cleat as a Fore bow spring.

However John Rousmaniere in the Annapolis Book of Seamanship shows a forward spring leading from an stern cleat forward to dock cleat and a after spring leading from a bow cleat aft to a dock cleat.

This may be along the lines of a kicking strap versus a boom vang discussion.

Now how do we pronounce tomato? Is colour or color?

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by Factor

Thanks for your assessment. I appreciate your courtesy.

Did you not see the the smiley face? The nomenclature is correct in my and indeed many parts of the world, its a bit like the IALA system that reverses in the USA, just because you do it that way doesn't make it correct.

The Australian Boating Manual is a standard text for the attainment of a Masters qualification and is the source reference in judicial marine matters. SO my use is correct where I sail and where I hold and was issued my qualification.

Well, then I suppose it's not very important. If it was, the international transportation community would have agreed on common terms/definitions.

[ozskipper]

Originally Posted by southace

Actully if you check the Capt.Dick Gandy Australian boating manual the forward spring leads aft to the dock. I agree with you but I think tecnectlly we are wrong! haha

Well, If Dick says it, I am happy to stand corrected.

[Mexdon]

Originally Posted by markpierce

OK. So, there is a lot of confusion. But I still say the the middle line pictured here is a forward spring line as it leads from the boat to the dock in the direction of the bow.

You are quite correct it is called a FORWARD QUARTER SPRING. It is to stop aft movement.

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Factor

I dont have that problem, I am perfectly able to berth the boat on my own. But given the confusion evidenced here, perhaps what sensible skippers should do is ensure that they explain to the crew what their definition of each line is so there is no confusion. Sticking with Gandy's terminology seems sensible to me given you are in Australia.

What I explain is that I'm docking the boat and for them all to just keep their seats. i have my system. I know where to stop the boat if the wind is on my stern. I have a slip line running down the south side of the slip so my very tender boat won't try to swing into the next boat in a north wind (well, it will still try, but it won't be successful. I have every line marked -- and have learned that certain lines are very stretchy and that I actually have to wrap past the mark (some day I'll re-mark them).

We pull in; I put the double-ended spring line on the port side; drama over. Then I have three boat hooks, because everyone *does* want to help, but invariably, I have to change every line set by someone else. The worst was when someone "helpfully" jumped off the boat and untied at the dock. The marks on the line only work if the dock end hasn't been changed ... and the one he undid was the double-ended spring line. So I had to stop the exit from the slip, re-secure, and then re-set the spring line.

People really shouldn't just spring into action on someone else's boat for no other reason than that they want to ...

One thing people haven't mentioned here (unless I missed it) is LENGTH of the spring lines. Here in storm country, the conventional wisdom is that spring lines should run nearly to the stern of the boat and nearly to the bow of the boat. My port spring line is a compromise in that regard, going to the middle, but my starboard spring lines are both quite long.

[gosstyla]

Reeds 3rd Edition page 309 has a very good labeled picture of the dock lines.

[Blue Stocking]

One thing people haven't mentioned here (unless I missed it) is LENGTH of the spring lines. Here in storm country, the conventional wisdom is that spring lines should run nearly to the stern of the boat and nearly to the bow of the boat. My port spring line is a compromise in that regard, going to the middle, but my starboard spring lines are both quite long.[/QUOTE]

The longer the lines, the more tidal range can be accomodated.

[Kalinka1]

Ok now that we're all thoroughly confused or enlightened. Who uses a Hail Mary (or insert your own name) line?

[Rakuflames]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

One thing people haven't mentioned here (unless I missed it) is LENGTH of the spring lines. Here in storm country, the conventional wisdom is that spring lines should run nearly to the stern of the boat and nearly to the bow of the boat. My port spring line is a compromise in that regard, going to the middle, but my starboard spring lines are both quite long.

The longer the lines, the more tidal range can be accomodated.[/QUOTE]


Yes. That's not typically a problem here -- 3' is an extreme tide here, seen only once or twice a year. But if there's a tropical storm blowing water our way, that's an entirely different situation.

[markpierce]

Over here, almost all docks for pleasure boats rise and fall with the tides.