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View Poll Results: Poll: How Young? vs Freedom?
Any Age… Parents and their young sailor have that right to decide 37 52.11%
Any Age… Provided that young sailor passes independent evaluation by sailing experts and child psychologists of their readiness. 8 11.27%
Age 18… Minimum departure Age 16 22.54%
Age 16… Minimum departure Age 10 14.08%
Age 14… Minimum departure Age 0 0%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-09-2009, 02:37   #76
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Hi Wotname,

Not sure I agree with your points.
That's why it is called a Forum I have even been known to change my point if someone puts up a good argument.
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:13   #77
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I havent read through all the different posts, but am basically on the side of the freedom unless affects the majority.

More children are hurt in car accidents than will be affected by one 16 yr old sailing around the world. Should we ban access even as passengers to cars until children are adults?

Of course that will not stop the doomsayers (nothing less than a 1 kiloton blast has ever been known to achieve that)
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Old 11-09-2009, 05:24   #78
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Parents Of Jessica Watson Angry Over Yacht Crash
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Old 11-09-2009, 06:06   #79
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Immaterial; parents are not qualified - ever. But they have the responsibility.

This thread does have me thinking though. I have always taken the line of its ONLY the parents responsibility but perhaps this is because I have only known large societies. In a small group (small tribe etc) perhaps the survival of the group depends more on its collective children than a large society and therefore different forces come into play.

Still thinking..........

If you look at small societies (Montserrat) The older adults will verbally correct other people's children in public. But the responsibility still lies with the parent. Also in these smaller comunities most of the residents are related in some way. So now we're talking about cousins, nieces, and nephews not stranger's kids.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:48   #80
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Pelagic:
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Should we as a wise and caring collective, not at least agree to an age guideline?
Now a wise and caring collective is something devoutly to be wished.
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Old 11-09-2009, 12:50   #81
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"She was just so tired and she's hand-steered that boat in," he said.

Good for her.
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Old 11-09-2009, 13:57   #82
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I do not care to nominate myself as part of a "wise and caring collective".

I'm not nominating anybody else at this time either.

So who decides who is "wise and caring"?

Or is that just another way of saying "This person agrees with me so they must be "wise and caring"?

Sorry folks, I don't trust any of you in a committee.
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Old 11-09-2009, 14:59   #83
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Reminds me of a quote concerning the intelligence of committees. Wish I could remember it, it was pithy.
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Old 11-09-2009, 15:28   #84
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Should we as a wise and caring collective, not at least agree to an age guideline?
There is no age limit for stupidity nor an age at which skill beomes normal. parents because they have the ability to bear children don't acquire the skills to do the job because they need them.

I don't think much of those out to set records at any age though some peope that set records are more than just the record they set. I think of many famous sailors not so much for thier records but who they are.
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Old 11-09-2009, 15:41   #85
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How interesting to see all of the different opinions that exist. It is such a tough question, especially since I always tend to think in terms of my own children. I think it also depends on what exactly the voyage. A 14 year old can do the sailing but probably not do the rest that a circumnavigation entails.
A friend of mine left home and got a job in another country when he was 12.

By the time he was 14, he was living in the red light district helping manage a "nightclub".

But, modern society doesn't lend itself to giving young teens that kind of responsibility from a young age, so I wouldn't expect it to be as common today.

Do recall that for about 10,000 years of human history, 13 was the age of "adulthood" in the vast majority of human cultures.

In tropical regions like the amazon, it's usually more like 10-12.

But, I agree with the commentary on.. "allowing" people to do things. Unless you're grossly endangering others, I frankly, don't care.

Flying a fighter jet in a populated area.... fits that bill.

Crossing an ocean doesn't (it's extraordinary rare for a sailboat to accidentally damage other boats or hurt non-crew, except in port).
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Old 11-09-2009, 17:35   #86
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More facts without judgement:

The pictures of the boat show a glancing blow to the starboard side #2 that took out the starboard uppers, the mast broke just above the lowers or intermediates and fell to port #5. The starboard toe rail is barely damaged #7

I have seen more damage to a boat at our sailing club that hit the poles of a marker; he lost his entire rig.

This is the luckiest 16-yr-old in the world.."a near miss is as good as a mile"

JESSICA WATSON YACHT CRASH | Stock Photography Photo Gallery Stock Image | Stock Photo AAP Image Australia
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Old 11-09-2009, 18:08   #87
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A friend of mine left home and got a job in another country when he was 12.

By the time he was 14, he was living in the red light district helping manage a "nightclub".
I'm not sure where this story fits in, but it sounds like a G'dam nightmare to me. Is the heartwarming ending that he becomes a mob boss?
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Old 11-09-2009, 19:40   #88
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Originally Posted by FSMike View Post
I do not care to nominate myself as part of a "wise and caring collective".

I'm not nominating anybody else at this time either.

So who decides who is "wise and caring"?

Or is that just another way of saying "This person agrees with me so they must be "wise and caring"?

Sorry folks, I don't trust any of you in a committee.
Fair comment Mike since we don’t know each other plus “wise” is a pretty egotistical word, that I now regret using.

My Intent was to say that we sailors who have been there… done that… are better equipped to make a “judgmental” call on setting any age limits for a circumnavigation.

This Poll is not about Jessica who from what I have read so far, made an unlucky decision to go down below after apparently sighting a non responsive deep sea… but she did a good job of quickly getting back to her parents and sponsor’s support.

Luckily this did not happen 1000’s of miles at sea

The weakness in my Poll is that I failed to take into account a very real and honorable belief that … “it is none of my business if another parent chooses to support this”..

So I am going to start another Poll asking what Age Limits: You as a Parent would set for Your Kids.
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Old 11-09-2009, 20:00   #89
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Fair comment Mike since we don’t know each other plus “wise” is a pretty egotistical word, that I now regret using.
I think I found someone wise enough:
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Old 11-09-2009, 20:02   #90
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My Intent was to say that we sailors who have been there… done that… are better equipped to make a “judgmental” call on setting any age limits for a circumnavigation.
Even when we don't know the person to which the "high standard" is to be applied. No one is that good. A note from your mom is is at least that good! The empirical evidence says it is.

So if there is an age for circumnavigation, is there another for sailing across the pond What about a really big lake? Sorry kid wait another two weeks and your off.

I'm not much in favor of the youngest to circumnavigate record being recorded or possible. I suppose it bottoms out when sponsors no longer want to pay for it. This one clearly has sponsors - most do. So how young are companies willing to bet their name on? The better question?

I'm even less in favor of someone else deciding who is and who isn't based on some goofy set of rules that some pompous set of old farts decide. Being an old fart I do get to vote.

I do know of an old fart that circumnavigated at 89. Took 20 years to do it too. That is a great record. He did it twice and the first time he took 10 years. He got it right the second time. That is a cruisers record! Not everything is about cruising. This thread surely isn't.
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