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Old 12-10-2010, 03:36   #16
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Theoretically, the distance traveled by a boat that can accomplish ninety degree tacks and sail without leeway would be roughly to 1.4 miles of travel per mile to be gained upwind, not 2 to 1 ... good 'ol Pythagoras. But, of course, boats and conditions vary far from the ideal. At any rate, there's more than one way to enjoy the journey.
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Old 12-10-2010, 03:51   #17
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Theoretically, the distance traveled by a boat that can accomplish ninety degree tacks and sail without leeway would be roughly to 1.4 miles of travel per mile to be gained upwind, not 2 to 1 ... good 'ol Pythagoras. But, of course, boats and conditions vary far from the ideal. At any rate, there's more than one way to enjoy the journey.
You are absolutely correct and I already corrected my erroneous post.
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Old 12-10-2010, 13:44   #18
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Curious turn of events here. FYI Bazzer those of us who grew up ocean racing in San Francisco there were lots of 22' boats out on the ocean on a given weekend.

"In the late 1960's, Larry Wright fared very well in the Midget Ocean Racing Association (MORA), placing first overall in 1968. Hankel, with crew Gary Paxton and Peter Truman, won the 1982 MORA Long Distance race to San Diego. He was pressed hard all the way by second place Pagan Baby, Scott Owen's boat. Blessed with a generous PHRF rating in the low 200's, a well sailed Santana 22 in any handicap fleet is a serious threat." quoted from the Santana 22 website.

I started racing MORA in the mid 80's sailing on a Yankee 30, an Express 27, Summertime Dream and a few other boats before stepping up to larger boats. I must have crossed tacks with Jim Cates sometime ago and have been running into him on different forums and he has always been polite and very knowlegable(sp?). There was a time when sailboats had smaller engines that could only bring a boat up to hull speed if their were no seas or wind. So we sailed. I sailed from SF to San Diego in a 27' boat. I sailed from Sf to HMB and back on a few different boats. The key was we sailed. We raced the boats which meant that we sailed. I have had numerous nice sails from HMB to SF leaving early in the morning when the wind was light and more westerly and then rounding buoy #2 and setting the chute for a sleigh ride into the bay. I have also had rides where the waves were so big that when you got to the bottom of one you couldn't see the masts of boats around you. I am sure Jim didn't mean to offend you but it is quite possible to sail back from HMB and it is often a fetch (a one tack beat) to get to buoy #2. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
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Old 12-10-2010, 14:31   #19
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Based on casual observation, I thought iron gennies were SOP when moving against headwinds in the San Francisco area.
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Old 12-10-2010, 14:35   #20
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Based on casual observation, I thought iron gennies were SOP when moving against headwinds in the San Francisco area.
When I sailed my boat in the Bay Area I used my engine to get in and out of the Marina. Less than half an hour per sailing trip.
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Old 12-10-2010, 14:37   #21
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[QUOTE=Charlie;539142] ... I have also had rides where the waves were so big that when you got to the bottom of one you couldn't see the masts of boats around you. QUOTE]

Had the same experience on a Columbia Defender (CCA class D) on the lightship races. (That was in the sixties.)
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Old 12-10-2010, 14:38   #22
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Heading from Half Moon Bay to San Francisco I have sailed, motored, and motorsailed. It all depends on the wind and sea, and typically these will be on the nose. Also, don't forget the southbound current. It can be a slog. But it can also be great, especially if you have a south wind from an offshore low pressure system.

Definitely stay offshore of the south shoal unless the seas are flat. The south "channel" is only a few feet deeper than the shoal, not really a channel at all. I usually head for the "2" (red) buoy, which marks the entrance to the main channel, but on calm days I will cut the corner a bit.
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Old 12-10-2010, 15:02   #23
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I don't think anybody wants to insult you,
I think Jim Cate quite clearly wanted to insult. Can you imagine any sailor taking his original post as anything but an insult? After the insult was pointed out, he made no attempt to apologize. Jim, to be clear, you owe Bazzer an apology; not about the facts of Northern California sailing, but about your hostile and dismissive tone.

As a practical matter, sailing north along the California coast is usually a particularly unpleasant and slow passage, fighting wind, current and waves. Purists may insist from the comfort of their computer screen that they make all passages under sail, but a great many actual sailors making this actual passage on a typical weekend are using their motors, for a host of good reasons. To dismiss them all as unworthy being called sailors flies in the face of both reality and common courtesy.

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Old 12-10-2010, 15:25   #24
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I think Jim Cate quite clearly wanted to insult. Can you imagine any sailor taking his original post as anything but an insult? After the insult was pointed out, he made no attempt to apologize. Jim, to be clear, you owe Bazzer an apology; not about the facts of Northern California sailing, but about your hostile and dismissive tone.

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I strongly disagree with you. Jim just pointed out that it was possible to sail from HMB to SF. If that is an insult and dismissive I think I need a new dictionary. It's been done since before Richard Henry Dana's time -- meaning before engines. I don't care for the way this thread has turned and will no longer participate in it.
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Old 12-10-2010, 16:50   #25
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I strongly disagree with you. Jim just pointed out that it was possible to sail from HMB to SF. If that is an insult and dismissive I think I need a new dictionary.
Since Charlie has left the thread, I guess my only reply is to correct the record for everyone else. Here's what Jim actually said in the entirety of his first post in the thread:

"Gosh Bazzer, that's a really bad attitude for a sailor to have. If you and your boat can't handle beating back from HMB, or even attempting it, perhaps another line of entertainment would be better for you."

So clearly, Charlie's memory was imperfect; Jim did not simply point out that it is possible to sail from HMB to SF. Ignoring the implications and subtext, at the very minimum, Jim stated outright that Bazzer had an un-sailorly attitude. Few people on a sailing forum would take that as anything but an insult.

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Old 13-10-2010, 09:08   #26
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Sparohok, you are 100% correct.

bazzer, have a great trip - whether you end up motoring, sailing, or both - and ignore the idiots and jerks at this forum who think that if you aren't doing things the way they do it, then you are doing it wrong.
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Old 13-10-2010, 15:31   #27
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Sparohok, you are 100% correct.

bazzer, have a great trip - whether you end up motoring, sailing, or both - and ignore the idiots and jerks at this forum who think that if you aren't doing things the way they do it, then you are doing it wrong.
Lots of useful advice and some crap! Sure you could do this in a West Wight 15 Potter and take the South Channel and the Potato Patch, but would you want to? I have sailed Contender's and Windsurfed the Oceans of the world. Sailing a small boat going in and out of The Golden Gate is not something to be taken lightly. So thanks for all the useful advice once again. Clearly there are some on this forum with whom I would not like to trust my life.

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